All Blacks vs Wales Test #2

reprobate

i didn't know that about afl either - just assumed it was a case of it being easier to catch a ball while running towards it rather than away, so with no offside line (and the kicks generally being low flat 'passes') it seldom happened. not much there to help the rugby situation though i guess.
 
i don't like the idea of cards being dished out for guys simply being beaten to the ball. would need to see a replay to assess that particular incident though.
 
if defending players went up like AFL players do, hands overhead, the attacking player would hardly ever be in a position to catch the ball by comparison, and would therefore always be in potential card territory. first guy to do it will get nailed a couple of times by someone flying in knees up for a traditional catch though.

gollum

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="reprobate" data-cid="590074" data-time="1466424772">
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i didn't know that about afl either - just assumed it was a case of it being easier to catch a ball while running towards it rather than away, so with no offside line (and the kicks generally being low flat 'passes') it seldom happened. not much there to help the rugby situation though i guess.
 
i don't like the idea of cards being dished out for guys simply being beaten to the ball. would need to see a replay to assess that particular incident though.
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The distinction is being beaten to the ball in the air & knowing you are beaten before you jump.
 
For example here the guy is probably going to catch it if you magically take away the jump, has eyes on the ball but he has clearly "lost" the contest & instead recklessly takes out the guy who has won.

Same again here, loses the jump (slips) and cleans out the guy who has won the jump

Red seems pretty harsh...
 
Both those cases the guy jumping has won the jump, guy coming through has zero chance of beating his opposition to the ball.
 
Contrast with this, Pom loses the jump so rather than clean out Smith tackles him when he comes down
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='

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While this is pretty much a perfect fair contest -
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='

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TeWaio

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="gollum" data-cid="590026" data-time="1466416944">
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I agree, it doesn't.
 
Most guys now are taught to jump no matter what, so they jump even when they are far too late & have zero chance of actually contesting, its cynical & dangerous & should be pinged. The application is usually "did he have any chance of contesting? No? Penalty. In doing so did he put the other player at risk of serious injury (ie he landed on his head)? Yes? Yellow card."
 
If you listen to the ref mike that exactly the process he goes through (that may have been tough on NZ commentary with Marshall shouting "whoom-PA!" over the top & Nisbo saying "well, whats happened there? That doesn't look good, I wonder what the outcome of this will be" as the ref explains it all.)
 
Genuine 50/50's are not usually penalised, Naholo's was not a 50/50, he was late, had no chance & just auto-jumped because that what they get told in practice. The one later on was an actual 50/50.
 
In contrast Ben Smith regularly sees he won't get there in time to contest, checks his run makes the tackle the second the guy hits the deck & rolls him. McCaw used to do the same. 
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Finally, someone cuts through the BS and actually explains the situation properly. Thank you.

taniwharugby

I still don't agree with the ref ruling potential for injury as a determining factor in the penalty sanction. 
Like the RC that Lima got in Super rugby, then the YC Ngatai got to this one, all due to the landing, all theoretically have great potential for injury but all landed differently, so there we have 3 levels of penalty.

Disgusted of TW

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="590108" data-time="1466448913">I still don't agree with the ref ruling potential for injury as a determining factor in the penalty sanction. 
Like the RC that Lima got in Super rugby, then the YC Ngatai got to this one, all due to the landing, all theoretically have great potential for injury but all landed differently, so there we have 3 levels of penalty.</blockquote>
 
Yes, luck and/or the resilience of the wronged player shouldn't determine the sanction.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="antipodean" data-cid="590072" data-time="1466424612">
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If you make contact with another player coming forward it's a free kick; "frontal contact". It would be different if you came down with the ball I guess.
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I read the laws (the AFL laws are surprisingly well laid out) and i can't find any mention of "frontal contact". I think you can run back with the flight, but you have to be going for the ball (most free kicks you see the guy takes his eyes off the ball and looks at the player he bumps), and if you make contact, it better not be high, and the ball better be close. The AFL have a 5m rule for the ball being "close". 
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/2016 Laws of Australian Football.pdf'>http://s.afl.com.au/staticfile/AFL Tenant/AFL/Files/Images/2016 Laws of Australian Football.pdf</a>
 
Page 44
 
The real difference between AFL and rugby is, the catcher isn't immediately given a free if they tumble over the top of a player when they take the mark. So a guy can take (or miss) a speccie, fall flat on his head, but it could be play on, if they guy underneath didn't deliberately do anything to cause it. Unlike rugby, where being under the ball and getting jumped over can get you a yellow card.

antipodean

<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-03-17/2016-laws-of-the-game-marking-contests'>http://www.afl.com.au/video/2015-03-17/2016-laws-of-the-game-marking-contests</a>

mariner4life

cheers for that. I'm actually pretty confused now about "frontal contact" because you see that every week. Did they deem he wasn't going for the ball in that? 
 
would this be free kicked?
 
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kiwiinmelb

With afl contest in the air is important , obviously , it's a major part of the game . 
Any hint of playing the man , not the bsll is a big no. 
Tunnelling is considered dangerous , which is going under the players legs while he is in the air , 
If this contest was in afl , I think it would come down to the umpires discretion , was naholo going for the ball , and not trying to spoil the man . 
You do get plenty of examples every week where the player with the better sit for the mark doesn't take it and the guy jumping lower down marks it instead .

antipodean

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="590166" data-time="1466468429">
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cheers for that. I'm actually pretty confused now about "frontal contact" because you see that every week. Did they deem he wasn't going for the ball in that? 
 
would this be free kicked?
 
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Genuinely don't know hence why I said earlier that perhaps it's different if you come down with the ball. AFL rules generally confuse the shit out of me anyway.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales Test #2