All Blacks vs Wales Test #2

leytonandamanda

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Mattasaurus" data-cid="589603" data-time="1466287292">Agree with most ... 
Think a lot of people in media miss how much the likes of cane and crotty do. It's not flash..it's the graft, the glue etc. 
A Smith is just awesome. Would love to see lima get a start next week. BB was good tonight but still not a starter for mine</blockquote>
Totally agree! I also think crotty and cane are important to the team,don't tend to make to many mistakes and I think crotty was excellent actually. 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

JC

I think BB is a sensational footballer, especially in broken play, but his tactical kicking just doesn't cut it when games are still an arm wrestle. Sorry if some of the posters think I'm a "hater" (what a baby-talk word BTW) but it's frustrating when the team is under pressure to see clearing kicks only get enough distance to put us back at the 22 only this time without the throw in to the lineout. 
We could get away with him starting at first five if someone else could clear the ball effectively but Crotty and Tamanivalu both showed off their kicking repertoire and it looks like it won't be them. 
Sign me up as one of those who think BB is best used as he has been used, as maybe the best bench impact player in the world.

Frank

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pakman" data-cid="589565" data-time="1466267270">
<div>
 In a perfect world would like to see Ngatai/Fekitoa combo get a run. 
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Fekitoa has been in the squad since 2014 and has played 2 and half seasons of Super rugby.
To me, he looks much the same player as he always has, immensely physical, but plays a headless chook.

Frank

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="589605" data-time="1466287659">
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We could get away with him starting at first five if someone else could clear the ball effectively but Crotty and Tamanivalu both showed off their kicking repertoire and it looks like it won't be them.
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Dagg??

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="leytonandamanda" data-cid="589596" data-time="1466283368">
I would like to see McKenzie get capped,I think he deserves it,I think he can do the impact off the bench like Barrett does 
Ahead of who ? Barrett or Lima ? 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk</blockquote>

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="JC" data-cid="589605" data-time="1466287659">
<div>
I think BB is a sensational footballer, especially in broken play, but his tactical kicking just doesn't cut it when games are still an arm wrestle. Sorry if some of the posters think I'm a "hater" (what a baby-talk word BTW) but it's frustrating when the team is under pressure to see clearing kicks only get enough distance to put us back at the 22 only this time without the throw in to the lineout. 
We could get away with him starting at first five if someone else could clear the ball effectively but Crotty and Tamanivalu both showed off their kicking repertoire and it looks like it won't be them. 
Sign me up as one of those who think BB is best used as he has been used, as maybe the best bench impact player in the world.
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</blockquote>
 
If Dagg and Ngatai are playing then we don't need our first five to kick deep. I think Barrett's kicking in general play is fine. He just doesn't have the distance.

African Monkey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bones" data-cid="589590" data-time="1466281048">
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Agree on Crotty there nzzp. He's trundling along and not doing much if anything wrong, but just seems a bit lacklustre.
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Agreed. People from down south will harp on about him but the guy doesn't make any mistakes because he does sweet fuck all in the first place. He's not likely to get dropped anytime soon due to lack of options but the fact is is that he is nothing more than a journeyman.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="589610" data-time="1466290080">
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 I think Barrett's kicking in general play is fine. He just doesn't have the distance.
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.

JC

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Frank" data-cid="589608" data-time="1466289366">Dagg??</blockquote>
 
No problem with Dagg in theory. But last night we saw the reality and that was that BB took on most of the clearances and did an only average job. Dagg got good distance when he got the chance but he's not the receiver from a breakdown as often as the first five is, is he? 
Maybe as Hydro says Ngatai coming back will help

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="African Monkey" data-cid="589611" data-time="1466290789">
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Agreed. People from down south will harp on about him but the guy doesn't make any mistakes because he does sweet fuck all in the first place. He's not likely to get dropped anytime soon due to lack of options but the fact is is that he is nothing more than a journeyman.
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I'm not from down south and I don't agree with you. Crotty was massive on defensive. It may not be the x-factor stuff, but it's very necessary. Good sub for Conrad, except that they give him the 12 jersey instead of the 13 jersey.
If you didn't see him do more than "sweet fuck all" then your one-eye is just blind.

Stargazer

Just tweeted by Nigel Yalden:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='https://twitter.com/hashtag/AllBlacks?src=hash'>#AllBlacks</a> update: Cruden & Fekitoa 2 b monitored b4 decision will be made on availability; Barrett has flu; will stay in Wellington tonight

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="589616" data-time="1466292910">
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I'm not from down south and I don't agree with you. Crotty was massive on defensive. It may not be the x-factor stuff, but it's very necessary. Good sub for Conrad, except that they give him the 12 jersey instead of the 13 jersey.
If you didn't see him do more than "sweet fuck all" then your one-eye is just blind.
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You do heart the Crusaders though ;).
 
I think Crotty was better last week than this week. But I don't think any of our new midfield options has put in a really good game in these last two tests, but we're comparing them with Nonu/Smith (and SBW cameos) so we need a bit of time to let them settle in. I'm just disappointed that Ngatai is still on concussion watch because I think he's going to be the mainstay of our midfield for a while and is better than the 3 we've had running around (but then again I heart the Chiefs).

African Monkey

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="589616" data-time="1466292910">
<div>
I'm not from down south and I don't agree with you. Crotty was massive on defensive. It may not be the x-factor stuff, but it's very necessary. Good sub for Conrad, except that they give him the 12 jersey instead of the 13 jersey.
If you didn't see him do more than "sweet fuck all" then your one-eye is just blind.
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</blockquote>
Hmmm you do wank on about the Crusaders a lot so you sure you're not from down south ? His defence was ok nothing more. It's all you'll get from him. Would much rather see Ngatai get a run once he's fit.

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="leytonandamanda" data-cid="589591" data-time="1466281710">
I disagree! Think he done a lot more than fekitoa and taminevalu have. I would prefer crotty moves to 13 though 
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk</blockquote>I thought I saw him at 13 for most of the second half and Crotty looked more effective

canefan

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="589617" data-time="1466292941">
Just tweeted by Nigel Yalden: <a class="bbc_url" href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/AllBlacks?src=hash">#AllBlacks</a> update: Cruden & Fekitoa 2 b monitored b4 decision will be made on availability; Barrett has flu; will stay in Wellington tonight</blockquote>Was BB playing with the flu?

Stargazer

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="589619" data-time="1466293349">
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You do heart the Crusaders though ;).
 
I think Crotty was better last week than this week. But I don't think any of our new midfield options has put in a really good game in these last two tests, but we're comparing them with Nonu/Smith (and SBW cameos) so we need a bit of time to let them settle in. I'm just disappointed that Ngatai is still on concussion watch because I think he's going to be the mainstay of our midfield for a while and is better than the 3 we've had running around (but then again I heart the Chiefs).
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I look more at individual players than the teams they play for, although I do like the way the Crusaders play, but I could say the same about the Highlanders, Canes and sometimes the Chiefs.
 
If my reactions sometimes seems biased towards certain players, it has more to do with the (negative) exaggeration with which some Ferners comment on these players. Like "x" is shit, or "y" is useless or doesn't do more than "sweet fuck all". Comments like that annoy me. If players were shit and useless they wouldn't be selected in the ABs. Some are still developing in their roles. Some are better than others in particular aspects of their game, but that doesn't make the others shit. If I called people Barrett haters on the Fern, it was because of comments like these, not because they criticised aspects of his game.
 
This forum is so dominated by people from the Northern half of the North Island that I also sometimes feel like expressing a different, less Chiefs or Blues biased opinion.

KiwiMurph

I think Crotty is good squad guy as he is dependable and solid which is important - but he does look to lack that extra gear to a long term starter. He's got a placeholder feel about him.

hurricane

On Crotty, There was one tackle he made in the 2nd half where he stopped the guy from making the advantage line and drove him back. And I remember thinking if our "worst" player on the field can make contributions like this then we have this match. And then 5 minutes later the flood gates opened. He contributed to the victory. I also thought Fekitoa did well. Not amazing but ok.

gt12

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Stargazer" data-cid="589626" data-time="1466294682">
<div>
I look more at individual players than the teams they play for, although I do like the way the Crusaders play, but I could say the same about the Highlanders, Canes and sometimes the Chiefs.
 
If my reactions sometimes seems biased towards certain players, it has more to do with the (negative) exaggeration with which some Ferners comment on these players. Like "x" is shit, or "y" is useless or doesn't do more than "sweet fuck all". Comments like that annoy me. If players were shit and useless they wouldn't be selected in the ABs. Some are still developing in their roles. Some are better than others in particular aspects of their game, but that doesn't make the others shit. If I called people Barrett haters on the Fern, it was because of comments like these, not because they criticised aspects of his game.
 
This forum is so dominated by people from the Northern half of the North Island that I also sometimes feel like expressing a different, less Chiefs or Blues biased opinion.
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</blockquote>
 
In other words, you make an effort to be biased too? That sounds very debate(y), rather than very dialectic(y). 
 
Anyway, I don't really see people being biased against players based on their Super sides or backgrounds. I see plenty of making fun of each other about posters and who they support, but little actual bias for provincial sides.
 
Anyway, on Crotty - he's clearly word class, and he's clearly AB standard (few here argue with that, so what's the point of needing to recognize it in every post?) So, the question being debated is whether he the best option at 2nd five or center or should stay when all other options are fit? I'm not sure why that discussion is somehow not exactly what we are all here for?
 
He'd stay in my final 4, even when SBW comes back, but in the same role as he's always played. I think he is best at 13 where his defensive reads can be most effective and where his decisions about passing or recycling are vital. He does do plenty of off the ball work which I like too (e.g. breakdown arrivals, where he lead backs in the first test, and probably lead again last night). However, I'm not in love with him at 2nd because I don't think he straightens the attack enough for us there. Sadly, he doesn't have huge bench impact, so a player like Taimanivalu or Fekitoa might be able to put him out of the side if he doesn't start. From next year, there are a number of young players coming through too (R. Ioane) so Crotty has to take his starting chances well. Moala still has time too.
 
Also talking midfield, watching the game I thought Taimanivalu looked pretty out of his depth - he wasn't terrible (except for that fucking ridiculous kick, which Fozzie mentioned later) but I also didn't think that looked like he was really going well either. As it was the first time I watched a game at the pub, and had a few beforehand, it might be me - I'll have to re-watch :)

Rancid Schnitzel

BB played like that with the flu? Imagine how good he'd be at 100% healthy! 
In all seriousness, I have concerns about his clearing kicking and his control in a tight game. On the other hand, such is his attacking ability, there may not be many tight games when he's on the park. Bit of an enigma that boy. 
I agree that this haters thing is childish. And that doesn't just apply to BB.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales Test #2