Super Rugby - Who's it going to be?

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="595605" data-time="1468101719">(if the Force upset the Brumbies)</blockquote>
 
And that's all they wrote. Tahs are finished.

Bovidae

Assuming the Lions beat the Jaguares and finish 1st their opponent will be either the Sharks or Bulls. The Sharks are at home and have an easier game.
 
The 6th place NZ team will need to play the Stormers in Cape Town.
 
The 2 NZ derbies decides who hosts a QF and who travels to Aust and SA. 
 
An updated table:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.superxv.com/table/'>http://www.superxv.com/table/</a>

Siam

Great stuff Bovidae. Appreciate the prompt updates

Stargazer

Tiebreaking rules below:
 
<img src="https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cm9gw9FVMAAI-bM.jpg" alt="Cm9gw9FVMAAI-bM.jpg">

Higgins

Thanks Stargazer, so it looks like a Canes thrashing of the Crusaders and a close Highlanders victory over the Chiefs next weekend will see the Hurricanes top the Conference.

Billy Tell

It's great 4 NZ sides have made it through...but the quality of the SA and Australia franchises is shocking.
 
We risk having NZ players heading overseas to get more competitive games of rugby at this rate.
 
I seriously think Australia and SA should be stripped of a franchise each, and then if expansion must continue do it from the Pacific Islands etc.
 
I just about never watch any games not involving NZ teams any more, and I'm on the point of purely restricting my viewing to local derbies.
 
Super Rugby was at one stage the jewel of world club rugby in terms of quality, even if it never had the fanatical fan support of the Heineken cup. But now it's just 4 or 5 quality NZ sides, and this season the Lions, with the Brumbies having faded woefully (but not so woefully they won't beat the Force and qualify ahead of 3 of the NZ sides).
 
Not too happy about where Super Rugby is headed at all (a feeder comp for UK & French club rugby).

Unco

To be honest, I don't really care about dropping teams, as there's always going to be dirt trackers and it's still possible for them to turn things around (hell, the last four years has been won by three franchises that used to be shite). The ARU and SARU got what they wanted with their extra teams and have watered down their teams as a result, that's their problem, not ours. But I do think SANZAAR needs to be a hell of a lot more careful with any future expansion though, there were clowns suggesting US, Singapore, blah blah blah teams just a couple of months ago, which I thought was pretty cringeworthy. I think the only new team I'd like to see is a second Argie team to help them build depth and give them a bit better draw but that's it.
 
The one change I'd most like to see is a fix to the shitty finals draw system, where some teams can end up travelling from NZ to SA to NZ and then back to SA. I think they should just adopt the American conference model we see in the NFL or NBA, where there's conference semi's and finals and then the two conference winners play each other. The only problem with that from a Super rugby stand point is that the Aus/NZ conference has 5 qualifiers vs the Africa conference's 3 but they could just make it so the lowest qualified Aus/NZ team has to go play in the Africa conference finals. Sousing the current standings then it'd look something like:
 
Chiefs vs Hurricanes (Aus/NZ semi 1)
Brumbies vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ semi 2)
Lions vs Sharks (Africa semi 1)
Stormers vs Highlanders (Africa semi 2)
 
Then the semi's/conference finals would look something like:
Chiefs vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ final)
Lions vs Highlanders (Africa final)
 
And finally, we get the final in the Tron:
Chiefs vs Highlanders
 
 :biggrin:

Canes4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="595725" data-time="1468136665">
<div>
To be honest, I don't really care about dropping teams, as there's always going to be dirt trackers and it's still possible for them to turn things around (hell, the last four years has been won by three franchises that used to be shite). The ARU and SARU got what they wanted with their extra teams and have watered down their teams as a result, that's their problem, not ours. But I do think SANZAAR needs to be a hell of a lot more careful with any future expansion though, there were clowns suggesting US, Singapore, blah blah blah teams just a couple of months ago, which I thought was pretty cringeworthy. I think the only new team I'd like to see is a second Argie team to help them build depth and give them a bit better draw but that's it.
 
The one change I'd most like to see is a fix to the shitty finals draw system, where some teams can end up travelling from NZ to SA to NZ and then back to SA. I think they should just adopt the American conference model we see in the NFL or NBA, where there's conference semi's and finals and then the two conference winners play each other. The only problem with that from a Super rugby stand point is that the Aus/NZ conference has 5 qualifiers vs the Africa conference's 3 but they could just make it so the lowest qualified Aus/NZ team has to go play in the Africa conference finals. Sousing the current standings then it'd look something like:
 
Chiefs vs Hurricanes (Aus/NZ semi 1)
Brumbies vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ semi 2)
Lions vs Sharks (Africa semi 1)
Stormers vs Highlanders (Africa semi 2)
 
Then the semi's/conference finals would look something like:
Chiefs vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ final)
Lions vs Highlanders (Africa final)
 
And finally, we get the final in the Tron:
Chiefs vs Highlanders
 
 :biggrin:
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Hurricanes beat the Crusaders this weekend. 
 
Chiefs beat the Highlanders this weekend.
 
Playoff picture will look like this:
 
 
 
1. LIONS VS SHARKS (1 vs 8)
2. CHIEFS VS HIGHLANDERS (2 vs 7)
3. STORMERS VS CRUSADERS 3 vs 6)
4. BRUMBIES VS HURRICANES (4 vs 5)
 
1. LIONS VS CRUSADERS
2. CHIEFS VS HURRICANES
 
1. HURRICANES VS CRUSADERS (FINAL AT THE TIN) 
 
Result: Canes get redemption and win their first title.
 
 :good:
 
This final week is going to be a good watch.
 
Anything can happen!!

NTA

The quality of the Australian teams has been poor overall the last two years, but its mostly consistency that is lacking. A few weeks ago the Waratahs absolutely belted the Chiefs all over the park, but conceded a few soft tries doing it.
 
Australian Rugby is implementing a better pathways system to get pro-ready teams up and running in an environment that is quite predatory in nature, with a lot of our juniors having options in league, that come with money. Without ~150 professional rugby positions available to show their wares, the overall strength of rugby here won't actually get any better.
 
Of course its still shackled by a self-indulgent school system that needs to follow the same marker.
 
But winning Super titles, or even getting into the finals, isn't a marker for Test rugby. Its just that NZ understood the required tweaks for its system a decade ago and have implemented them. We're a bit slow/naive/politically fucked to catch on.
 
Go Force!

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="595749" data-time="1468140130">
<div>
The quality of the Australian teams has been poor overall the last two years, but its mostly consistency that is lacking. A few weeks ago the Waratahs absolutely belted the Chiefs all over the park, but conceded a few soft tries doing it.
 
Australian Rugby is implementing a better pathways system to get pro-ready teams up and running in an environment that is quite predatory in nature, with a lot of our juniors having options in league, that come with money. Without ~150 professional rugby positions available to show their wares, the overall strength of rugby here won't actually get any better.
 
Of course its still shackled by a self-indulgent school system that needs to follow the same marker.
 
But winning Super titles, or even getting into the finals, isn't a marker for Test rugby. Its just that NZ understood the required tweaks for its system a decade ago and have implemented them. We're a bit slow/naive/politically fucked to catch on.
 
Go Force!
</div>
</blockquote>
It's probably a topic for a Wallabies/Aust rugby thread of it's own but what is your take on what now seems like a raft of offshore players being able to play for the Wallabies? Is this a good thing long term? I can understand for a one off tournament like the RWC bringing someone in to fill a hole/add experience but it seems to have changed from that already. Correct me if im wrong but guys like the prop looking tahs winger coming straight into the Wallabies from Scotland, Kepu/Horwill coming straight back from o/s and the continued calls for Giteau, AAC, Genia and Mitchell etc. Is it really worth it? Is this going to help build a sustainable production line?
 
The long list of expat kiwi Journeymen/former AB fringe guys taking up spot would also be of concern to me if the roles were reversed. Although this is probably a symptom of the over expansion and need to fill rosters within Aust.
C Rettalick, A Mathewson, Z Guildford, A Ta'avau, T Ellison, A Thompson, T Smith, S Masirewa, A Nikoro etc is hardly a list of star recruits that are going to help grow the game. I'd probably only offer NZ Super contracts to Thompson and Ellison out of that list.

Bones

Retallick, Mathewson and Smith would all be more than welcome at most of our franchises I'd say.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="595763" data-time="1468142121">
<div>
It's probably a topic for a Wallabies/Aust rugby thread of it's own but what is your take on what now seems like a raft of offshore players being able to play for the Wallabies? Is this a good thing long term? I can understand for a one off tournament like the RWC bringing someone in to fill a hole/add experience but it seems to have changed from that already. Correct me if im wrong but guys like the prop looking tahs winger coming straight into the Wallabies from Scotland, Kepu/Horwill coming straight back from o/s and the continued calls for Giteau, AAC, Genia and Mitchell etc. Is it really worth it? Is this going to help build a sustainable production line?
 
The long list of expat kiwi Journeymen/former AB fringe guys taking up spot would also be of concern to me if the roles were reversed. Although this is probably a symptom of the over expansion and need to fill rosters within Aust.
C Rettalick, A Mathewson, Z Guildford, A Ta'avau, T Ellison, A Thompson, T Smith, S Masirewa, A Nikoro etc is hardly a list of star recruits that are going to help grow the game. I'd probably only offer NZ Super contracts to Thompson and Ellison out of that list.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yes it probably is, but threads about Wallabies things don't tend to get a lot of legs here :)
 
It is a good question, and I'm kind of conflicted about how to answer. No doubt, Australian Rugby has failed to a degree to grasp the "national jersey pride" in the same way NZ has. There are a raft of differences at lower levels that makes the two situations distinct of course (rugby league presence being a fairly significant one), and the ARU are trying to address pathways as I said.
 
Ultimately, I think bringing back players in positions where we're light on is a good short-term goal, but ultimately we need to develop those positions ourselves. I'm cautious about the Giteau Rule overall - if it helps us win a Bledisloe then fucking awesome because that is a shot in the arm for the sport. But I didn't honestly think it would make it past RWC as a system.
 
We can't develop players with less professional teams at the moment. We don't have a large enough domestic competition to support players coming through and maturing, and quite a lot of the time even our second tier guys are getting offers overseas, and not always for big money.
 
Its a five- or ten-year process to get the new pathways happening so there are no easy answers. Particularly when you're involved in the pursuit of victory and that isn't always easy with the competition we've got across the ditch.
 
The NZRFU made hard decisions years back about the NPC, and they weren't necessarily popular. That, and the right culture, has ensured the production line continues.
 
The quality of coaching here is also not good, and has resulted in players departing because of bullshit like Richard Graham, which is down to our nepotistic, small-minded attitude to the politics of the sport. This includes club rugby which refuses to acknowledge the primacy of NRC as our chosen professional pathway. But that is a whole 'nother story...

dK

Rod Kafer on Rugby 360 wanted to start a campaign #bringthemhome, targeting the rugby union trained league players and try and bring them back.

Bovidae

Ackermann is resting 15 Lions players for the trip to Argentina. The Lions may still win the match but I'd predict the outcome is closer to 50:50 now. In their favour they will know the results of all the other matches before they play.

NTA

Fuck. That move cost the Shorks a title back in 2014 when it handed the Tahs first spot.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596060" data-time="1468325137">
<div>
Ackermann is resting 15 Lions players for the trip to Argentina. The Lions may still win the match but I'd predict the outcome is closer to 50:50 now. In their favour they will know the results of all the other matches before they play.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I think this is the right move. The travel to Arg and back could scupper their run at the quarter final stage. This gives them the best chance of going deep into the finals. If they make the grand final, anything can happen (although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).
 
Although in saying that what will their draw be like next year, are the conferences staying the same? If they're not then maybe they should be going all in and try to secure top spot this year.....

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596064" data-time="1468336273">
<div>
although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Crusaders in 2000? 
 
Fark I remember that game. seeing some of the fatties pick themselves up off the floor at the end of the game and rush defend again and again ... as I said to my mates at the time 'you can't coach that shit'. Just a phenomenal team back then. Must drag that final out and re-watch it.

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596064" data-time="1468336273">
<div>
I think this is the right move. The travel to Arg and back could scupper their run at the quarter final stage. This gives them the best chance of going deep into the finals. If they make the grand final, anything can happen (although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).
</div>
</blockquote>
 
The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they could fall to 3rd (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs.
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Although in saying that what will their draw be like next year, are the conferences staying the same? If they're not then maybe they should be going all in and try to secure top spot this year.....
</blockquote>
 
I assume the NZ teams will play the AC1 teams (Stormers, Bulls etc) next season and the Lions only play the Aust teams from outside the African conferences. So their draw is tougher this year.

taniwharugby

also means 2 Kiwi sides head to SA next week to face the Lions and Stormers (assuming the Lions don't get over the line v the Jaguares - which would be a huge morale boost if they do)

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596106" data-time="1468360278">The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they could fall to 3rd (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs. 
I assume the NZ teams will play the AC1 teams (Stormers, Bulls etc) next season and the Lions only play the Aust teams from outside the African conferences. So their draw is tougher this year.</blockquote>
Does the conference makeup stay the same? So the Lions will still have the Kings and Jaguars in their conference? 
That's pretty shit that they get two completely new franchises who still have their training wheels on. Meanwhile the Hurricanes, for example, get four ex/current Champs!

The Silver Fern

Super Rugby - Who&#39;s it going to be?

Super Rugby - Who's it going to be?