Super Rugby - Who's it going to be?

Unco

To be honest, I don't really care about dropping teams, as there's always going to be dirt trackers and it's still possible for them to turn things around (hell, the last four years has been won by three franchises that used to be shite). The ARU and SARU got what they wanted with their extra teams and have watered down their teams as a result, that's their problem, not ours. But I do think SANZAAR needs to be a hell of a lot more careful with any future expansion though, there were clowns suggesting US, Singapore, blah blah blah teams just a couple of months ago, which I thought was pretty cringeworthy. I think the only new team I'd like to see is a second Argie team to help them build depth and give them a bit better draw but that's it.
 
The one change I'd most like to see is a fix to the shitty finals draw system, where some teams can end up travelling from NZ to SA to NZ and then back to SA. I think they should just adopt the American conference model we see in the NFL or NBA, where there's conference semi's and finals and then the two conference winners play each other. The only problem with that from a Super rugby stand point is that the Aus/NZ conference has 5 qualifiers vs the Africa conference's 3 but they could just make it so the lowest qualified Aus/NZ team has to go play in the Africa conference finals. Sousing the current standings then it'd look something like:
 
Chiefs vs Hurricanes (Aus/NZ semi 1)
Brumbies vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ semi 2)
Lions vs Sharks (Africa semi 1)
Stormers vs Highlanders (Africa semi 2)
 
Then the semi's/conference finals would look something like:
Chiefs vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ final)
Lions vs Highlanders (Africa final)
 
And finally, we get the final in the Tron:
Chiefs vs Highlanders
 
 :biggrin:

Canes4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Unco" data-cid="595725" data-time="1468136665">
<div>
To be honest, I don't really care about dropping teams, as there's always going to be dirt trackers and it's still possible for them to turn things around (hell, the last four years has been won by three franchises that used to be shite). The ARU and SARU got what they wanted with their extra teams and have watered down their teams as a result, that's their problem, not ours. But I do think SANZAAR needs to be a hell of a lot more careful with any future expansion though, there were clowns suggesting US, Singapore, blah blah blah teams just a couple of months ago, which I thought was pretty cringeworthy. I think the only new team I'd like to see is a second Argie team to help them build depth and give them a bit better draw but that's it.
 
The one change I'd most like to see is a fix to the shitty finals draw system, where some teams can end up travelling from NZ to SA to NZ and then back to SA. I think they should just adopt the American conference model we see in the NFL or NBA, where there's conference semi's and finals and then the two conference winners play each other. The only problem with that from a Super rugby stand point is that the Aus/NZ conference has 5 qualifiers vs the Africa conference's 3 but they could just make it so the lowest qualified Aus/NZ team has to go play in the Africa conference finals. Sousing the current standings then it'd look something like:
 
Chiefs vs Hurricanes (Aus/NZ semi 1)
Brumbies vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ semi 2)
Lions vs Sharks (Africa semi 1)
Stormers vs Highlanders (Africa semi 2)
 
Then the semi's/conference finals would look something like:
Chiefs vs Crusaders (Aus/NZ final)
Lions vs Highlanders (Africa final)
 
And finally, we get the final in the Tron:
Chiefs vs Highlanders
 
 :biggrin:
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 
Hurricanes beat the Crusaders this weekend. 
 
Chiefs beat the Highlanders this weekend.
 
Playoff picture will look like this:
 
 
 
1. LIONS VS SHARKS (1 vs 8)
2. CHIEFS VS HIGHLANDERS (2 vs 7)
3. STORMERS VS CRUSADERS 3 vs 6)
4. BRUMBIES VS HURRICANES (4 vs 5)
 
1. LIONS VS CRUSADERS
2. CHIEFS VS HURRICANES
 
1. HURRICANES VS CRUSADERS (FINAL AT THE TIN) 
 
Result: Canes get redemption and win their first title.
 
 :good:
 
This final week is going to be a good watch.
 
Anything can happen!!

NTA

The quality of the Australian teams has been poor overall the last two years, but its mostly consistency that is lacking. A few weeks ago the Waratahs absolutely belted the Chiefs all over the park, but conceded a few soft tries doing it.
 
Australian Rugby is implementing a better pathways system to get pro-ready teams up and running in an environment that is quite predatory in nature, with a lot of our juniors having options in league, that come with money. Without ~150 professional rugby positions available to show their wares, the overall strength of rugby here won't actually get any better.
 
Of course its still shackled by a self-indulgent school system that needs to follow the same marker.
 
But winning Super titles, or even getting into the finals, isn't a marker for Test rugby. Its just that NZ understood the required tweaks for its system a decade ago and have implemented them. We're a bit slow/naive/politically fucked to catch on.
 
Go Force!

pukunui

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="NTA" data-cid="595749" data-time="1468140130">
<div>
The quality of the Australian teams has been poor overall the last two years, but its mostly consistency that is lacking. A few weeks ago the Waratahs absolutely belted the Chiefs all over the park, but conceded a few soft tries doing it.
 
Australian Rugby is implementing a better pathways system to get pro-ready teams up and running in an environment that is quite predatory in nature, with a lot of our juniors having options in league, that come with money. Without ~150 professional rugby positions available to show their wares, the overall strength of rugby here won't actually get any better.
 
Of course its still shackled by a self-indulgent school system that needs to follow the same marker.
 
But winning Super titles, or even getting into the finals, isn't a marker for Test rugby. Its just that NZ understood the required tweaks for its system a decade ago and have implemented them. We're a bit slow/naive/politically fucked to catch on.
 
Go Force!
</div>
</blockquote>
It's probably a topic for a Wallabies/Aust rugby thread of it's own but what is your take on what now seems like a raft of offshore players being able to play for the Wallabies? Is this a good thing long term? I can understand for a one off tournament like the RWC bringing someone in to fill a hole/add experience but it seems to have changed from that already. Correct me if im wrong but guys like the prop looking tahs winger coming straight into the Wallabies from Scotland, Kepu/Horwill coming straight back from o/s and the continued calls for Giteau, AAC, Genia and Mitchell etc. Is it really worth it? Is this going to help build a sustainable production line?
 
The long list of expat kiwi Journeymen/former AB fringe guys taking up spot would also be of concern to me if the roles were reversed. Although this is probably a symptom of the over expansion and need to fill rosters within Aust.
C Rettalick, A Mathewson, Z Guildford, A Ta'avau, T Ellison, A Thompson, T Smith, S Masirewa, A Nikoro etc is hardly a list of star recruits that are going to help grow the game. I'd probably only offer NZ Super contracts to Thompson and Ellison out of that list.

Bones

Retallick, Mathewson and Smith would all be more than welcome at most of our franchises I'd say.

NTA

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="pukunui" data-cid="595763" data-time="1468142121">
<div>
It's probably a topic for a Wallabies/Aust rugby thread of it's own but what is your take on what now seems like a raft of offshore players being able to play for the Wallabies? Is this a good thing long term? I can understand for a one off tournament like the RWC bringing someone in to fill a hole/add experience but it seems to have changed from that already. Correct me if im wrong but guys like the prop looking tahs winger coming straight into the Wallabies from Scotland, Kepu/Horwill coming straight back from o/s and the continued calls for Giteau, AAC, Genia and Mitchell etc. Is it really worth it? Is this going to help build a sustainable production line?
 
The long list of expat kiwi Journeymen/former AB fringe guys taking up spot would also be of concern to me if the roles were reversed. Although this is probably a symptom of the over expansion and need to fill rosters within Aust.
C Rettalick, A Mathewson, Z Guildford, A Ta'avau, T Ellison, A Thompson, T Smith, S Masirewa, A Nikoro etc is hardly a list of star recruits that are going to help grow the game. I'd probably only offer NZ Super contracts to Thompson and Ellison out of that list.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yes it probably is, but threads about Wallabies things don't tend to get a lot of legs here :)
 
It is a good question, and I'm kind of conflicted about how to answer. No doubt, Australian Rugby has failed to a degree to grasp the "national jersey pride" in the same way NZ has. There are a raft of differences at lower levels that makes the two situations distinct of course (rugby league presence being a fairly significant one), and the ARU are trying to address pathways as I said.
 
Ultimately, I think bringing back players in positions where we're light on is a good short-term goal, but ultimately we need to develop those positions ourselves. I'm cautious about the Giteau Rule overall - if it helps us win a Bledisloe then fucking awesome because that is a shot in the arm for the sport. But I didn't honestly think it would make it past RWC as a system.
 
We can't develop players with less professional teams at the moment. We don't have a large enough domestic competition to support players coming through and maturing, and quite a lot of the time even our second tier guys are getting offers overseas, and not always for big money.
 
Its a five- or ten-year process to get the new pathways happening so there are no easy answers. Particularly when you're involved in the pursuit of victory and that isn't always easy with the competition we've got across the ditch.
 
The NZRFU made hard decisions years back about the NPC, and they weren't necessarily popular. That, and the right culture, has ensured the production line continues.
 
The quality of coaching here is also not good, and has resulted in players departing because of bullshit like Richard Graham, which is down to our nepotistic, small-minded attitude to the politics of the sport. This includes club rugby which refuses to acknowledge the primacy of NRC as our chosen professional pathway. But that is a whole 'nother story...

dK

Rod Kafer on Rugby 360 wanted to start a campaign #bringthemhome, targeting the rugby union trained league players and try and bring them back.

Bovidae

Ackermann is resting 15 Lions players for the trip to Argentina. The Lions may still win the match but I'd predict the outcome is closer to 50:50 now. In their favour they will know the results of all the other matches before they play.

NTA

Fuck. That move cost the Shorks a title back in 2014 when it handed the Tahs first spot.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596060" data-time="1468325137">
<div>
Ackermann is resting 15 Lions players for the trip to Argentina. The Lions may still win the match but I'd predict the outcome is closer to 50:50 now. In their favour they will know the results of all the other matches before they play.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
I think this is the right move. The travel to Arg and back could scupper their run at the quarter final stage. This gives them the best chance of going deep into the finals. If they make the grand final, anything can happen (although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).
 
Although in saying that what will their draw be like next year, are the conferences staying the same? If they're not then maybe they should be going all in and try to secure top spot this year.....

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596064" data-time="1468336273">
<div>
although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Crusaders in 2000? 
 
Fark I remember that game. seeing some of the fatties pick themselves up off the floor at the end of the game and rush defend again and again ... as I said to my mates at the time 'you can't coach that shit'. Just a phenomenal team back then. Must drag that final out and re-watch it.

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596064" data-time="1468336273">
<div>
I think this is the right move. The travel to Arg and back could scupper their run at the quarter final stage. This gives them the best chance of going deep into the finals. If they make the grand final, anything can happen (although only once has a team hopped on an international flight and won a final).
</div>
</blockquote>
 
The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they could fall to 3rd (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs.
 
<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
 
Although in saying that what will their draw be like next year, are the conferences staying the same? If they're not then maybe they should be going all in and try to secure top spot this year.....
</blockquote>
 
I assume the NZ teams will play the AC1 teams (Stormers, Bulls etc) next season and the Lions only play the Aust teams from outside the African conferences. So their draw is tougher this year.

taniwharugby

also means 2 Kiwi sides head to SA next week to face the Lions and Stormers (assuming the Lions don't get over the line v the Jaguares - which would be a huge morale boost if they do)

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596106" data-time="1468360278">The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they could fall to 3rd (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs. 
I assume the NZ teams will play the AC1 teams (Stormers, Bulls etc) next season and the Lions only play the Aust teams from outside the African conferences. So their draw is tougher this year.</blockquote>
Does the conference makeup stay the same? So the Lions will still have the Kings and Jaguars in their conference? 
That's pretty shit that they get two completely new franchises who still have their training wheels on. Meanwhile the Hurricanes, for example, get four ex/current Champs!

Hooroo

An incredible final weekend of Rugby with so maby interesting match ups.
 
Amazing to think one of 4 NZ teams in the final round could top the conference.
 
Stoked I am going to miss the Chiefs game as going to a thing up in Auckland where I will be the odd one out as everyone else will be horsey types who don't really follow rugby! Good times

G-Man

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="596112" data-time="1468361320">
<div>
Does the conference makeup stay the same? So the Lions will still have the Kings and Jaguars in their conference? 
That's pretty shit that they get two completely new franchises who still have their training wheels on. Meanwhile the Hurricanes, for example, get four ex/current Champs!
</div>
</blockquote>
Who said life was fair! But doesn't that make it a better team and player, that you can compete against the best? Isn't that what we all have been arguing for in SR, more quality than quantity?
 
The fact that numbers have been dwindling at stadiums in the Republic and on TV suggest that SANZAR has some serious issues at hand. Unfortunately it is lead by a plonker.
 
PS. Money talks and bullshit walks.

hurricane

I've made my bet at the TAB. I have slapped down $25 on the chiefs to win. I was told if I wait until after this round the odds will go down. Part of my bet is based on Liam Messam playing. I realise that Liam had mixed results as an All Black especially when he first started as an AB. But he is a very fine Super Rugby player and he really buys into Chiefs Mana. He will be worth his weight in gold in the dressing room. Heck, if Liam Messam looked me in the face and told me to play with pride for the Chiefs whanau it would mean something to me. There was an awesome little snippet of him before a playoff match started a few years ago. I wish I had it on tape. He looked fired up and said a few key words in Te Reo admist getting his general point across in everyday english. It worked well. He plays with pride and I think my $25 could pay if he plays. Which I concede is an if. This may be a bit far fetched but he has been one of the more consistent Chiefs I have seen play out of any chiefs team.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="596106" data-time="1468360278">
The Lions are guaranteed a home QF but could miss out on a home SF and final if they don't win, as they could fall to 3rd (PD is good though). It's a calculated risk but it has opened the door for a NZ team to secure homefield advantage during the playoffs. </blockquote>
 
No they can't. They'd be at worst 2nd. Because Conferences. It's not points. Brumbies/Tahs and Stormers can't get past them. If they win their QF they host an SF.

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="booboo" data-cid="596583" data-time="1468531134">
<div>
No they can't. They'd be at worst 2nd. Because Conferences. It's not points. Brumbies/Tahs and Stormers can't get past them. If they win their QF they host an SF.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Yes, I realised my mistake yesterday and was meaning to correct it.
 
The Lions are either #1 or #2. The Stormers are set as #3 and the Brumbies or Tahs are #4. Any of the NZ teams can finish 1st, 2nd, 5th, 6th or 7th. The Sharks or Bulls will be #8.

Chris B.

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82168543/sixtry-sharks-book-playoff-place'>http://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/super-rugby/82168543/sixtry-sharks-book-playoff-place</a>
 
The Sharks will be seeded eighth for the quarterfinals, which means they will face the team that finishes top in the overall standings, either compatriots the Lions or the Chiefs. Their opponents will be decided on Saturday.
 
</blockquote>
 
Seriously, who are the dumb motherfuckers who write/check/publish this shit?
 
Not only apparently a total lack of understanding of basic mathematics, but the permutations have been discussed ad nauseum for several weeks.
 
You simply have to be both incompetent and as thick as pigshit.

The Silver Fern

Super Rugby - Who&#39;s it going to be?

Super Rugby - Who's it going to be?