All Blacks v France
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.
Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?Because that's the stated criteria for selection. So anyone with a booming boot who is a turnstile isn't likely to get a call up.
So going off those stats, does that mean Love is excluded?
If we believe them. I've seen enough of Stevenson to form an opinion on his defensive attributes. I'll watch Love more closely next year and if he's much the same no one should be in any doubt I'll call a spade a spade.
I think you're overegging it. Dagg was no better as a defender
Fucking nonsense.
"Daggs defence questioned"
An actual headline when Dagg was playing
https://www.scribd.com/document/218948188/Dagg-s-defence-questioned-The-Star-April-2-2014
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
We win that game with Dmac starting, would have been up by 30 first half when we had the momentum. Fukn dumb selections cost us the game.
And then we take off Roigard 50th min for some dumb reason.
The way that first half played out I agree, the way DMac plays we would have made a lot more of our possession
What was evident today is that our game plan and ability to score points when on top depends heavily on the quickness of DMac's pass.
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@junior said in All Blacks v France:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
We win that game with Dmac starting, would have been up by 30 first half when we had the momentum. Fukn dumb selections cost us the game.
And then we take off Roigard 50th min for some dumb reason.
The way that first half played out I agree, the way DMac plays we would have made a lot more of our possession
What was evident today is that our game plan and ability to score points when on top depends heavily on the quickness of DMac's pass.
We built our lead on the back of continuity and a direct, forward orientated game plan. In the third quarter we moved away from that plan and tried to play wider without doing the hard work, and that allowed the French back in
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
Today we were up 14-3 and comfortable and just blew it.
Agreed. We fell apart in the later stages of the game. Quelle surprise.
It doesn't matter that we lost differently to the last 4 years, completely dominated or were comfortably up 14-3 at half-time. We still lost when we should have won.
It's the same poor game management and inability to remain cool and reassert control under pressure we've seen for the last 6-7 years. Today was pretty much a repeat of Bled 1 this year, Twickenham in '22 and much of Lions 2017.
I really thought a corner had been turned last week but we regressed - again. Maybe it's time to ditch the older players/make a fresh start with a new management group inc. the likes of Vaa'i, Sititi etc.
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@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
Ethan DeGroot probably glad he missed that meeting today. He'd have been blowing out his arse in that game of bull rush.
I think he has some serious work to do to regain his starting spot
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v France:
We are miles off being a good team, personnel wise and strategy wise. We were bloody slow to the ruck in the second half. Our wingers are bollock slow. The only places we look dangerous are in in the starting front and back rows, the rest of it we are struggling. Feels like a bleak WC cycle to me. We had so much talent and where is it now.
I have pretty much the completely opposite view. NZ lost to one of the top four teams in the world at their fortress (and it is a fortress, the loudest and most partisan atmosphere you'll get at any ground around the world).
NZ have a great front row with Samisoni Taukei'aho still to return, some very good young loose forwards, two very promising halfbacks in Roigard and Ratima.
There are a few issues across the line-up but Razor will probably push the boat out a little more next year. There's a few pieces of deadweight that probably need to be moved on but already Cane and Perenara will be gone next year, Reece has probably played his last game in black, and there are a few more players who will be under a lot of pressure. It bodes well for the future, even if they didn't always get the biscuits this year.
Bolded bit - agree with this a lot but I am not sure that we are playing to this area of strength. We are still trying to play the game like we have the world's best midfield and back 3, and a relatively weak but mobile pack, which we clearly do not.
If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.
Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?Because that's the stated criteria for selection. So anyone with a booming boot who is a turnstile isn't likely to get a call up.
So going off those stats, does that mean Love is excluded?
If we believe them. I've seen enough of Stevenson to form an opinion on his defensive attributes. I'll watch Love more closely next year and if he's much the same no one should be in any doubt I'll call a spade a spade.
I think you're overegging it. Dagg was no better as a defender
Fucking nonsense.
"Daggs defence questioned"
An actual headline when Dagg was playing
https://www.scribd.com/document/218948188/Dagg-s-defence-questioned-The-Star-April-2-2014
The effort in question; beaten by a great step:
16K views · 929 reactions | #TryoftheDay - Take in Hurricanes Alapati...
#TryoftheDay - Take in Hurricanes Alapati Leiua's breathtaking try from 2014 vs the Crusaders
An actual All Black coach pointing out Shauny has defensive issues that need to be worked on.
Why Shaun Stevenson initially missed out on the All Blacks’ squad
To the surprise of many, Chiefs flyer Shaun Stevenson was a shock omission from the All Blacks’ initial 36-player squad for the Rugby Championship.
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@junior said in All Blacks v France:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v France:
We are miles off being a good team, personnel wise and strategy wise. We were bloody slow to the ruck in the second half. Our wingers are bollock slow. The only places we look dangerous are in in the starting front and back rows, the rest of it we are struggling. Feels like a bleak WC cycle to me. We had so much talent and where is it now.
I have pretty much the completely opposite view. NZ lost to one of the top four teams in the world at their fortress (and it is a fortress, the loudest and most partisan atmosphere you'll get at any ground around the world).
NZ have a great front row with Samisoni Taukei'aho still to return, some very good young loose forwards, two very promising halfbacks in Roigard and Ratima.
There are a few issues across the line-up but Razor will probably push the boat out a little more next year. There's a few pieces of deadweight that probably need to be moved on but already Cane and Perenara will be gone next year, Reece has probably played his last game in black, and there are a few more players who will be under a lot of pressure. It bodes well for the future, even if they didn't always get the biscuits this year.
Bolded bit - agree with this a lot but I am not sure that we are playing to this area of strength. We are still trying to play the game like we have the world's best midfield and back 3, and a relatively weak but mobile pack, which we clearly do not.
If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.
I would agree our best moments are when our forwards are smashing it up the guts, along with strong LO defence and strong scrummaging
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
Ethan DeGroot probably glad he missed that meeting today. He'd have been blowing out his arse in that game of bull rush.
I think he has some serious work to do to regain his starting spot
Lakai didn't look out of place tonight.
One of the bright spots of this year has been the new loosies and front row selections. They may be down to injury, but they haven't just slotted in seamlessly by accident and Ryan's clearly done a good job there.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@junior said in All Blacks v France:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v France:
We are miles off being a good team, personnel wise and strategy wise. We were bloody slow to the ruck in the second half. Our wingers are bollock slow. The only places we look dangerous are in in the starting front and back rows, the rest of it we are struggling. Feels like a bleak WC cycle to me. We had so much talent and where is it now.
I have pretty much the completely opposite view. NZ lost to one of the top four teams in the world at their fortress (and it is a fortress, the loudest and most partisan atmosphere you'll get at any ground around the world).
NZ have a great front row with Samisoni Taukei'aho still to return, some very good young loose forwards, two very promising halfbacks in Roigard and Ratima.
There are a few issues across the line-up but Razor will probably push the boat out a little more next year. There's a few pieces of deadweight that probably need to be moved on but already Cane and Perenara will be gone next year, Reece has probably played his last game in black, and there are a few more players who will be under a lot of pressure. It bodes well for the future, even if they didn't always get the biscuits this year.
Bolded bit - agree with this a lot but I am not sure that we are playing to this area of strength. We are still trying to play the game like we have the world's best midfield and back 3, and a relatively weak but mobile pack, which we clearly do not.
If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.
I would agree our best moments are when our forwards are smashing it up the guts, along with strong LO defence and strong scrummaging
Ah, what? Our only created try today was offload a-go-go, lots of passes around the back, and an almost intercepted loop pass.
When we were on top we played out the back almost exclusively.The problem came when France got their hands in the ball our pack had no answers for their round the corner at pace forwards game.
Then in the second half when France adapted and stopped missing tackles, and turned evey ruck in to a shit fight, we didn't adapt.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
Ethan DeGroot probably glad he missed that meeting today. He'd have been blowing out his arse in that game of bull rush.
I think he has some serious work to do to regain his starting spot
Lakai didn't look out of place tonight.
One of the bright spots of this year has been the new loosies and front row selections. They may be down to injury, but they haven't just slotted in seamlessly by accident and Ryan's clearly done a good job there.
But will Razor view these bright spots as important foundation pieces for the present and the future, or as place fillers for injured incumbents? Next year will be crucial. He has to set the tone and not waste any game time in forming the team that will challenge for Bill in 2027
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@Bones said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@reprobate said in All Blacks v France:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v France:
Increasingly noticeable for me how 10 and 15 aren't prepared in Super rugby in certain areas for the international level, such as kicking.
How was Beaudens super form? Even if he were learning those skills at international level he has enough caps to have nailed them.
McKenzie kicks often and long for the Chiefs, with Stevenson doing the same.Why are you mentioning Stevenson? Merhtens looks like Collins compared to Stevenson. In an era of "both sides of the ball" he's absent half the time.
Because it was a reply to a post about super rugby 10s and 15s kicking.
Why are you talking about both sides of the ball when kicking it means having it?Because that's the stated criteria for selection. So anyone with a booming boot who is a turnstile isn't likely to get a call up.
So going off those stats, does that mean Love is excluded?
If we believe them. I've seen enough of Stevenson to form an opinion on his defensive attributes. I'll watch Love more closely next year and if he's much the same no one should be in any doubt I'll call a spade a spade.
I think you're overegging it. Dagg was no better as a defender
Fucking nonsense.
"Daggs defence questioned"
An actual headline when Dagg was playing
https://www.scribd.com/document/218948188/Dagg-s-defence-questioned-The-Star-April-2-2014
The effort in question; beaten by a great step:
#TryoftheDay - Take in Hurricanes Alapati Leiua's breathtaking try from 2014 vs the Crusaders
An actual All Black coach pointing out Shauny has defensive issues that need to be worked on.
Why Shaun Stevenson initially missed out on the All Blacks’ squad
To the surprise of many, Chiefs flyer Shaun Stevenson was a shock omission from the All Blacks’ initial 36-player squad for the Rugby Championship.
You mean Foster saying Stevenson had improved defensively and he'd like him to continue improving?
Dagg being a defensive liability was definitely a narrative over a period of time and one of the reasons he lost his spot at 15 to Smith. I'm not saying I agreed with it but it was definitely a thing in the media.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@junior said in All Blacks v France:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v France:
We are miles off being a good team, personnel wise and strategy wise. We were bloody slow to the ruck in the second half. Our wingers are bollock slow. The only places we look dangerous are in in the starting front and back rows, the rest of it we are struggling. Feels like a bleak WC cycle to me. We had so much talent and where is it now.
I have pretty much the completely opposite view. NZ lost to one of the top four teams in the world at their fortress (and it is a fortress, the loudest and most partisan atmosphere you'll get at any ground around the world).
NZ have a great front row with Samisoni Taukei'aho still to return, some very good young loose forwards, two very promising halfbacks in Roigard and Ratima.
There are a few issues across the line-up but Razor will probably push the boat out a little more next year. There's a few pieces of deadweight that probably need to be moved on but already Cane and Perenara will be gone next year, Reece has probably played his last game in black, and there are a few more players who will be under a lot of pressure. It bodes well for the future, even if they didn't always get the biscuits this year.
Bolded bit - agree with this a lot but I am not sure that we are playing to this area of strength. We are still trying to play the game like we have the world's best midfield and back 3, and a relatively weak but mobile pack, which we clearly do not.
If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.
I would agree our best moments are when our forwards are smashing it up the guts, along with strong LO defence and strong scrummaging
Ah, what? Our only created try today was offload a-go-go, lots of passes around the back, and an almost intercepted loop pass.
When we were on top we played out the back almost exclusively.The problem came when France got their hands in the ball our pack had no answers for their round the corner at pace forwards game.
Then in the second half when France adapted and stopped missing tackles, and turned evey ruck in to a shit fight, we didn't adapt.
Didn't Lakai score a try up the guts? At other times we got lots of go forward but couldn't convert it to points
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
You mean Foster saying Stevenson had improved defensively and he'd like him to continue improving?
Yeah, from uninterested to just incompetent. If he does improve enough to be a contender, that's marvellous for NZ rugby. On the evidence he didn't do as requested.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
You mean Foster saying Stevenson had improved defensively and he'd like him to continue improving?
Yeah, from uninterested to just incompetent. If he does improve enough to be a contender, that's marvellous for NZ rugby. On the evidence he didn't do as requested.
By evidence do you mean your opinion?
Of the players who played meaningful minutes at fullback in this years SRP only Stephen Perofeta and Cole Forbes had higher tackle completed percentage than Stevenson.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks v France:
Today we were up 14-3 and comfortable and just blew it.
Agreed. We fell apart in the later stages of the game. Quelle surprise.
It doesn't matter that we lost differently to the last 4 years, completely dominated or were comfortably up 14-3 at half-time. We still lost when we should have won.
It's the same poor game management and inability to remain cool and reassert control under pressure we've seen for the last 6-7 years. Today was pretty much a repeat of Bled 1 this year, Twickenham in '22 and much of Lions 2017.
I really thought a corner had been turned last week but we regressed - again. Maybe it's time to ditch the older players/make a fresh start with a new management group inc. the likes of Vaa'i, Sititi etc.
Oh I agree there is clearly a mental issue with some of the players. I actually think a lot of the core guys from the last 6 years have just gotten used to losing, while the younger newer ones are much more confident and willing to play.
But at least we are now saying confidently these are games we SHOULD have won.
The 4 years prior.. pretty much every game lost was a deserved loss where we were never in it, and even some of the wins we were the inferior team scraping past by a whisker, praying the other team plays below themselves so we have a shot.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France:
@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@junior said in All Blacks v France:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks v France:
@LagerLout said in All Blacks v France:
We are miles off being a good team, personnel wise and strategy wise. We were bloody slow to the ruck in the second half. Our wingers are bollock slow. The only places we look dangerous are in in the starting front and back rows, the rest of it we are struggling. Feels like a bleak WC cycle to me. We had so much talent and where is it now.
I have pretty much the completely opposite view. NZ lost to one of the top four teams in the world at their fortress (and it is a fortress, the loudest and most partisan atmosphere you'll get at any ground around the world).
NZ have a great front row with Samisoni Taukei'aho still to return, some very good young loose forwards, two very promising halfbacks in Roigard and Ratima.
There are a few issues across the line-up but Razor will probably push the boat out a little more next year. There's a few pieces of deadweight that probably need to be moved on but already Cane and Perenara will be gone next year, Reece has probably played his last game in black, and there are a few more players who will be under a lot of pressure. It bodes well for the future, even if they didn't always get the biscuits this year.
Bolded bit - agree with this a lot but I am not sure that we are playing to this area of strength. We are still trying to play the game like we have the world's best midfield and back 3, and a relatively weak but mobile pack, which we clearly do not.
If Razor has half a brain, over the next 3 years, we will become much more a 10 man rugby team, that scores tries off mauls, close in running and chaos ball counter attacks.
I would agree our best moments are when our forwards are smashing it up the guts, along with strong LO defence and strong scrummaging
Ah, what? Our only created try today was offload a-go-go, lots of passes around the back, and an almost intercepted loop pass.
When we were on top we played out the back almost exclusively.The problem came when France got their hands in the ball our pack had no answers for their round the corner at pace forwards game.
Then in the second half when France adapted and stopped missing tackles, and turned evey ruck in to a shit fight, we didn't adapt.
Didn't Lakai score a try up the guts? At other times we got lots of go forward but couldn't convert it to points
Lol no go watch it again
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@canefan said in All Blacks v France:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v France:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks v France:
@Jet said in All Blacks v France:
Ethan DeGroot probably glad he missed that meeting today. He'd have been blowing out his arse in that game of bull rush.
I think he has some serious work to do to regain his starting spot
Lakai didn't look out of place tonight.
One of the bright spots of this year has been the new loosies and front row selections. They may be down to injury, but they haven't just slotted in seamlessly by accident and Ryan's clearly done a good job there.
But will Razor view these bright spots as important foundation pieces for the present and the future, or as place fillers for injured incumbents? Next year will be crucial. He has to set the tone and not waste any game time in forming the team that will challenge for Bill in 2027
That's my biggest disappointment. Totally understand his cautious approach in the first year and use of old hands to pass experience, but he's used the old hands far too much. Just hope he gets a bit more radical next year
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@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v France:
@brodean said in All Blacks v France:
You mean Foster saying Stevenson had improved defensively and he'd like him to continue improving?
Yeah, from uninterested to just incompetent. If he does improve enough to be a contender, that's marvellous for NZ rugby. On the evidence he didn't do as requested.
By evidence do you mean your opinion?
Of the players who played meaningful minutes at fullback in this years SRP only Stephen Perofeta and Cole Forbes had higher tackle completed percentage than Stevenson.
That can mean as little as he didn't bother attempting difficult tackles. I suggest you watch him play and get back to us about this strength of his.
