All Blacks vs Ireland
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Vaa’i was pretty ineffective around the park on Saturday but the lineout completely fell apart after he left the field in the 41st minute. The same scenes of a comically bad lineout reappeared for the first time since the Eden Park game against England. The common theme isn’t the hooker (Taylor at Eden Park, Aumua at Twickenham) but Scott Barrett’s role as lineout caller. On Saturday, he was at times massively overcomplicating the calls – the NZ lineout around 52 minutes took nearly 10 seconds after the call and consisted of multiple fakes none of which fooled the English lineout defenders, only for Aumua to throw it way over the top – and when he wanted to go quick by calling for a throw to the front, his timing with Aumua was completely off.
So it makes sense that Vaa’i starts because he has become central to the NZ lineout being somewhat functional, and the ABs cannot afford a completely dysfunctional lineout against Ireland. But I think Tuipulotu has made enough of a case to start. At 31 years old, he’s now the Blues captain, a Super Rugby champion and a one-time AB captain, and he has reached his prime years as a tight five forward. While Wallace Sititi fully deserved his Man of the Match-award on Saturday, there were really two Men of the Match, with Tuipulotu being the other. People have (strangely enough) compared Sititi to Kaino but there was only one All Black channeling his inner Jerome on Saturday and that was when Tuipulotu pretty much murdered George Furbank at the 77th minute in broad Twickenham daylight. While many have now claimed that the bench issue is finally resolved, I don’t really see how you can leave his carrying and tackling on the bench.
So, for me, it would’ve made sense to put Tuipulotu at five, shift Scott Barrett to six, Savea to seven and Sititi to eight, with Cane taking a spot on the bench. Cane played reasonably well against England (his second half breakdown turnover was crucial) and several players have complimented his leadership, but Sititi is the most dangerous player at the moment, Tuipulotu is dominating the collisions and Ardie Savea is still playing at a really high level. Scott Barrett has his detractors but I think he is playing well enough in his role. While he would be wearng the six jersey on his back, in reality Tuipulotu would be carrying out the hard carrying and tackling more typically associated with the blindside. And until someone else comes along who can effectively call lineouts, Vaa’i will keep on starting. So Cane is the one who would drop out.
By putting Tuipulotu on the bench, Robertson has made it harder for himself against Ireland than I think it needed to be. That said, the Crusaders with Razor at the helm were able to ride the waves of emotional victory better than any team I’ve seen, even when his teams didn’t always seem that convincing on paper. It’ll be interesting to see what happens on Friday.
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Does anyone actually have a photo of de groot on tour training with the team.
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@chchfanatic said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Does anyone actually have a photo of de groot on tour training with the team.
No but I saw Kieran Read training with them
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Can't be too disappointed with that team, pretty much what was predicted. I don't mind Cam starting from the pine, he's come back from a pretty serious injury so it's going to take him a while to get back to the form he showed earlier in the year. Using him from the pine is probably the best scenario atm, instead of rushing him back in as a starter.
With no Beaudy in the team, Perofeta was always going to get that bench spot, he's played a lot more ten than Love. Pretty sure the last time Love had any serious mins at 10 was when he came on and steered the Canes to that last minute thrilling win against the Blues in Dunedin when Ardie scored in the corner. In other words, years ago.
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@chchfanatic said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Does anyone actually have a photo of de groot on tour training with the team.
He’s in the background of the photo 9 along. Clear as day. There was nothing terrible done like your source is implying. He missed a team meeting before the England game so missed selection. He has now missed selection this week because of how well T.Williams and Ofa played which is completely fair.
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@Landers92 but a “calf injury’. Someone is having a laugh with that reason for not being selected.
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@ACT-Crusader yeah they reported calf injury last week in the media, think it was stuff. Unfortunately we can only go off what’s reported but they should just be honest. I’m just trying to find out more and get some good oil and sharing what I hear👍🏽 don’t want to be wrong on this one but it does make sense
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@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Vaa’i was pretty ineffective around the park on Saturday but the lineout completely fell apart after he left the field in the 41st minute. The same scenes of a comically bad lineout reappeared for the first time since the Eden Park game against England. The common theme isn’t the hooker (Taylor at Eden Park, Aumua at Twickenham) but Scott Barrett’s role as lineout caller. On Saturday, he was at times massively overcomplicating the calls – the NZ lineout around 52 minutes took nearly 10 seconds after the call and consisted of multiple fakes none of which fooled the English lineout defenders, only for Aumua to throw it way over the top – and when he wanted to go quick by calling for a throw to the front, his timing with Aumua was completely off.
So it makes sense that Vaa’i starts because he has become central to the NZ lineout being somewhat functional, and the ABs cannot afford a completely dysfunctional lineout against Ireland. But I think Tuipulotu has made enough of a case to start. At 31 years old, he’s now the Blues captain, a Super Rugby champion and a one-time AB captain, and he has reached his prime years as a tight five forward. While Wallace Sititi fully deserved his Man of the Match-award on Saturday, there were really two Men of the Match, with Tuipulotu being the other. People have (strangely enough) compared Sititi to Kaino but there was only one All Black channeling his inner Jerome on Saturday and that was when Tuipulotu pretty much murdered George Furbank at the 77th minute in broad Twickenham daylight. While many have now claimed that the bench issue is finally resolved, I don’t really see how you can leave his carrying and tackling on the bench.
So, for me, it would’ve made sense to put Tuipulotu at five, shift Scott Barrett to six, Savea to seven and Sititi to eight, with Cane taking a spot on the bench. Cane played reasonably well against England (his second half breakdown turnover was crucial) and several players have complimented his leadership, but Sititi is the most dangerous player at the moment, Tuipulotu is dominating the collisions and Ardie Savea is still playing at a really high level. Scott Barrett has his detractors but I think he is playing well enough in his role. While he would be wearng the six jersey on his back, in reality Tuipulotu would be carrying out the hard carrying and tackling more typically associated with the blindside. And until someone else comes along who can effectively call lineouts, Vaa’i will keep on starting. So Cane is the one who would drop out.
By putting Tuipulotu on the bench, Robertson has made it harder for himself against Ireland than I think it needed to be. That said, the Crusaders with Razor at the helm were able to ride the waves of emotional victory better than any team I’ve seen, even when his teams didn’t always seem that convincing on paper. It’ll be interesting to see what happens on Friday.
You’re putting the rest of us in the ha’penny place with your superb posts mate.
Couldn’t you just call Scooter a fluffybunny or something like the rest of us?
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@The-Irishman said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
The AB's are in town with a lot of matches under their belt and improving every game. Ireland haven't played together since July, bench is weak and Furlong is a big loss. On the other hand, Ireland haven't lost at the Aviva since Feb '21 in a two point defeat to France.
Without Schmidt's influence, who was a big factor in the quarter final win, I feel this is a weaker side. Ireland are generally more cohesive. AB's have the better individual players and without doubt this is the game they will have targeted most in the november series. Lots of contradictions but it makes up for one very interesting game. Hopefully more entertaining than last week's which was pretty dire.
Edit: I also have tickets for this game so will be the first time ever seeing the haka in person and cannot bloody wait!
On my way over to it too. Boarding a flight as we speak.
Will be spitting at the Irish team bus outside the shelbourne on Friday afternoon.
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@Kiwidom said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Ireland team named :
Hugo Keenan; Mack Hansen, Garry Ringrose, Bundee Aki, James Lowe; Jack Crowley, Jamison Gibson-Park;
Andrew Porter, Rónan Kelleher, Finlay Bealham; Joe McCarthy, James Ryan; Tadhg Beirne, Josh van der Flier, Caelan Doris (capt).
Replacements: Rob Herring, Cian Healy, Tom O'Toole, Iain Henderson, Peter O'Mahony, Conor Murray, Ciarán Frawley, Jamie Osborne.
Lucky old Ireland being able to draft in a three Kiwis and an Aussies to help them in positions where they are a bit light.
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@Frye said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Would be classic if the Irish crowd booed the Haka considering their self-righteous stance on booing kicks
Piss them off. Do the haka in the sheds.
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
That 23 is more than capable of beating NZ
And the Captain Obvious Award goes to ... 😀
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Frye said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Would be classic if the Irish crowd booed the Haka considering their self-righteous stance on booing kicks
Piss them off. Do the haka in the sheds.
Better still, POM pops out, "you're a shit Te Rauparaha"...
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
Couldn’t you just call Scooter a fluffybunny or something like the rest of us?
Worse things came to mind than fluffybunny when I was watching some of those lineouts on Saturday. But that's only during the heat of the game.
I honestly don't know how you guys do it, watching the game and discussing it at the same time. I'm having enough trouble keeping myself composed during the game as is (with composed being used very loosely here).
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@Mauss good post but i disagree with heaps of it!
Vaai did not have a great game around the paddock but he wasn't awful. And yep, it's been noticable for a while he is now our most important lineout forward (not hard when you look at his locking partner and the loose forward mix).
But i hate the solution. Scott Barrett is too fucking slow to play blindside. And looking where we station our blindside on attack, he's completely wasted out there. Scott is best buried in the tight. Leave him there. And if he's not fulfilling that duty, drop him to the bench. I really like the current mix though if Vaai returns to his earlier form (he is still only 24! jesus he still has a heap of development in him). Barrett and Vaai early, Patty T for the last 30. The selectors need to be bolder and pull Barrett is Vaai is going better.
Bringing Finau and Patty on at the same time would actually make more sense.
I am also not sure Cane off the bench is the best use of his current talents. I am also far from convinced his current level of play is actually less than Savea's
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@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
shift Scott Barrett to six
Aaand that's where you lose credibility
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@Mauss Vaa'i is crucial to the lineout, and with no Taylor or Samisoni you would have to expect the Irish to be targeting us hard there. Aumua has been a bit dicey and Bell was pretty horrible in Super - I really hope we have the brains to keep it simple and avoid the long throws, particularly early in the game (but honestly it would be a surprise if we do - optimism rather than pragmatism seems to be our MO).
Tuipolotu was awesome last week, and has been very good all year. Also provides a bit of scrum power I think. However, I'm of the opinion that Barrett is a pretty mediocre 6 (and captain) and a good lock, so while Pat deserves a start I think it would weaken us more than it helps us.
Which is not to say I'm happy with the loosies - aside obviously from Sititi who should be made captain and call the lineouts... I thought Savea was anonymous last game - he's copped a lot of criticism on here this year, some fair, and some over the top. Cane played okay, but both have been underwhelming for 2 key AB positions. Not many options right now with the squad picked and injury problems unfortunately, and the Irish propensity to use inside runners mean we need good awareness of defensive structure in our forwards.
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@The-Irishman said in All Blacks vs Ireland:
@Jet Whatever way the match goes, enjoy the weekend jet. No whinging at the ref or booing the kickers 😉
Place kicks only though yeah? You can't ask a New Zealander to not boo a drop-kick.
