All Blacks vs Wallabies I
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
We all agree that if we lose against this Wallabies side Razor should be sacked?
The gloss has well and truly come off and all the hype around Robertson has turned out to be, well, hype.
But I say stick with him as a new coach needs more time. Also (broken record alert) I think there are way deeper problems with NZ rugby affecting the ABs than just the coach. That said, we need a review of his tenure so far to see what's missing, if he needs support and also start asking questions on if he's really up to Test rugby or how much more time he needs.
As @Hooroo says, worst scenario is 2 thumping wins over the Wobbles which paper over the cracks.
Let’s hope it’s not 2 thumping losses then!?!
Can't see it, but with Schmidt, there's a real chance he'll turn us over
Did you see them against the argies
Not yet. But I did see us against Argentina..... and I saw Schmidt's Ireland narrowly lose to the 2015 AB's after being hammered the previous week...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Not yet. But I did see us against Argentina..... and I saw Schmidt's Ireland narrowly lose to the 2015 AB's after being hammered the previous week...
If there is a hallmark of Wallaby rugby in recent years, it's our ability to play well one week and shit the next.
Well we bounce back from this weekend? In time for Bled 1?
Not with the gulf in quality and experience between squads.
I'd fucking love a win but these guys - like the last two decades - have inherited the scars of those before... Like genetic echoes of PTSD.
I'm seeing a lot of misery of there in Twitter land; more than usual. A few are reaching breaking point.
With a 2025 season to plan for our club, this won't help a bit
over and above all the other shit."Just keep working at it" I keep getting told, but it's fucking difficult not to just drop it all and go be Swans fan...
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Not yet. But I did see us against Argentina..... and I saw Schmidt's Ireland narrowly lose to the 2015 AB's after being hammered the previous week...
If there is a hallmark of Wallaby rugby in recent years, it's our ability to play well one week and shit the next.
Well we bounce back from this weekend? In time for Bled 1?
Not with the gulf in quality and experience between squads.
I'd fucking love a win but these guys - like the last two decades - have inherited the scars of those before... Like genetic echoes of PTSD.
I'm seeing a lot of misery of there in Twitter land; more than usual. A few are reaching breaking point.
With a 2025 season to plan for our club, this won't help a bit
over and above all the other shit."Just keep working at it" I keep getting told, but it's fucking difficult not to just drop it all and go be Swans fan...
There is a chance we drop off in intensity, it takes a lot to raise to the play the Boks, the question is will both teams be similarly hurt by their recent results?
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Not yet. But I did see us against Argentina..... and I saw Schmidt's Ireland narrowly lose to the 2015 AB's after being hammered the previous week...
If there is a hallmark of Wallaby rugby in recent years, it's our ability to play well one week and shit the next.
Well we bounce back from this weekend? In time for Bled 1?
Not with the gulf in quality and experience between squads.
I'd fucking love a win but these guys - like the last two decades - have inherited the scars of those before... Like genetic echoes of PTSD.
I'm seeing a lot of misery of there in Twitter land; more than usual. A few are reaching breaking point.
With a 2025 season to plan for our club, this won't help a bit
over and above all the other shit."Just keep working at it" I keep getting told, but it's fucking difficult not to just drop it all and go be Swans fan...
The decision to dump Rennie for Jones is clearly still being felt. Schmidt is a proven coach though and will likely get the best out of the team
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
The gloss has well and truly come off and all the hype around Robertson has turned out to be, well, hype.
Do you remember the time we didn't have a front row, mid field and JB put on the wing.
Leading the world champs until the 65 min mark in both SA tests.
I'll take it.We are steadily finding keepers. Williams, Vaai, Sititi, Ratima We are building
Chiefs strong. Time to bring back the vikings.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
My starting 15 for the Wallabies
15 Love (more solid option than Jordan)
14 Reiko
13 Proctor (time for a real centre)
12 Jordie or ALBThis shit is dimwitted beyond belief. The problem isn't the centre, it's the bloke inside him and his poor decision making.
DMac has displayed he's a rabbit in the spotlight. How many more times do we need this "learning"? Start Plummer.
Savea to the bench. Sititi to start at 8.
If we had Plummer the last 2 games we would have lost by 20 each game
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
My starting 15 for the Wallabies
15 Love (more solid option than Jordan)
14 Reiko
13 Proctor (time for a real centre)
12 Jordie or ALBThis shit is dimwitted beyond belief. The problem isn't the centre, it's the bloke inside him and his poor decision making.
DMac has displayed he's a rabbit in the spotlight. How many more times do we need this "learning"? Start Plummer.
Savea to the bench. Sititi to start at 8.
If we had Plummer the last 2 games we would have lost by 20 each game
Quite possibly
But that’s why you introduce him into Test rugby by starting him against Australia with DMac at 15 or on the bench
If he goes well you do the same in the second test
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
My starting 15 for the Wallabies
15 Love (more solid option than Jordan)
14 Reiko
13 Proctor (time for a real centre)
12 Jordie or ALBThis shit is dimwitted beyond belief. The problem isn't the centre, it's the bloke inside him and his poor decision making.
DMac has displayed he's a rabbit in the spotlight. How many more times do we need this "learning"? Start Plummer.
Savea to the bench. Sititi to start at 8.
If we had Plummer the last 2 games we would have lost by 20 each game
We probably wouldn't even have scored any tries in the 2nd SA test.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
My starting 15 for the Wallabies
15 Love (more solid option than Jordan)
14 Reiko
13 Proctor (time for a real centre)
12 Jordie or ALBThis shit is dimwitted beyond belief. The problem isn't the centre, it's the bloke inside him and his poor decision making.
DMac has displayed he's a rabbit in the spotlight. How many more times do we need this "learning"? Start Plummer.
Savea to the bench. Sititi to start at 8.
If we had Plummer the last 2 games we would have lost by 20 each game
We probably wouldn't even have scored any tries in the 2nd SA test.
2nd SA test we had a guaranteed try and a very probable try only stopped by professional fouls and resulted in both yellow cards for the Boks.
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Is Harry Plummer really seen as a long term test player?
Or is he this year's Simon Mannix/Stephen Bachop? i.e., the best of a limited field running around at the moment?
If the latter why give him time against Aus?
He was behind Perofeta in the initial selection.
Would we be better taking a punt and looking to use the Aus games to develop young talent, (e.g., Jacomb?) with an eye to the future rather than the immediate stopgap?
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Is Harry Plummer really seen as a long term test player?
We get seduced into picking players like Mo'unga. With talent in the backline, a steady 10 can work.
I'm not nearly as down on DMac as others; I think he's gone really well over the last few seasons, and really picked his chance to attack. However, who's his backup? BB is going downhill and still thinks he can tuck the ball, run and break free. I'd have no issues with trying a 10 who can drive a team around the paddock, but without obvious flair/X factor.
At the weekend our forwards did enough - it was the backs who let us down. Sometimes you need an unflashy type to set others away.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
I'm not nearly as down on DMac as others;
Yeah. Me neither.
I've seen little whinging about him on here, which would be indicative of him playing flawlessly. But have heard/read comments elsewhere.
His speed at 10 seemed to suit our attack in the week just gone, Not sure there's an equivalent.
Would like to know what he's not doing.
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Bar one or two blips (including his goal-kicking in the weekend, which is normally very reliable and with another option in the backline in Jordie Barrett, not really a major reason to drop him from playing 10), McKenzie has been very good this year. I actually don't think he's been a step down from Mo'unga at all, to be honest.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
The decision to dump Rennie for Jones is clearly still being felt.
Let's say Rennie took us out of the pool - and maybe even to a Semifinal; the talk here about Bledisloe games papering over cracks, and this would be no different for the rest of us.
Sliding doors, right?
I'm told that Peter Horne's remit will be top-to-bottom reform, not just High Performance. That gives me a glimmer of hope, but unless he actually talks to people like me in club land, he won't get the full picture.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
No one is pretending he's the second coming of DC, merely that since he's in the squad we should give him some time to see what a bigger body, that's displayed defensive capability, an ability to make good decisions keeping the ball in front of his forwards and giving his backline time and space could do for the team.
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Frank said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
My starting 15 for the Wallabies
15 Love (more solid option than Jordan)
14 Reiko
13 Proctor (time for a real centre)
12 Jordie or ALBThis shit is dimwitted beyond belief. The problem isn't the centre, it's the bloke inside him and his poor decision making.
DMac has displayed he's a rabbit in the spotlight. How many more times do we need this "learning"? Start Plummer.
Savea to the bench. Sititi to start at 8.
If we had Plummer the last 2 games we would have lost by 20 each game
Maybe maybe not. But since the guy never had a run, who's to know what he can and can't do?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
No one is pretending he's the second coming of DC, merely that since he's in the squad we should give him some time to see what a bigger body, that's displayed defensive capability, an ability to make good decisions keeping the ball in front of his forwards and giving his backline time and space could do for the team.
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
Exactly. I don't know why some posters seem to think this is a zero sum game. Just because we should try Plummer doesn't mean we need to bin DMac to do it
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
No one is pretending he's the second coming of DC, merely that since he's in the squad we should give him some time to see what a bigger body, that's displayed defensive capability, an ability to make good decisions keeping the ball in front of his forwards and giving his backline time and space could do for the team.
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
Exactly. I don't know why some posters seem to think this is a zero sum game. Just because we should try Plummer doesn't mean we need to bin DMac to do it
Sure. But isn't he just a stop gap until Perofeta comes back?
If our aim is to give players experience in positions we are planning long term, is there any point doing so with Plummer if he's just out of the squad once Perofeta is back?
In which case, isn't it just a better use of the limited tests we have a year to give our actual starting and long term 10 more and more experience as he doesn't even have 10 caps starting at this level in that position?
