All Blacks vs Wallabies I
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@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Fozzie won by 31 last year….
You mean Fozzie Ryan Schmidt and co...
I look forward to every mention of Surf Jesus from now on:
Razor,
Rangi, Tubby Ryan the Blues hater, Hansen, Holland, Ellison and co.The Surf Apostles?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Nepia said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Fozzie won by 31 last year….
You mean Fozzie Ryan Schmidt and co...
I look forward to every mention of Surf Jesus from now on:
Razor,
Rangi, Tubby Ryan the Blues hater, Hansen, Holland, Ellison and co.The Surf Apostles?
So we can simplify it down the The Bear Apostles and The Surf Apostles.
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@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph as soon as each and every Scott Robertson dickrider has come to terms with reality
So no.
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We've almost certainly lost the RC for the first time in years, have a team which goes to pieces in the last 20 minutes, a forward pack which is the epitome of inconsistency and a stuttering backline with minimal penetration. Not forgetting we have yet another "must win" game - this time against the 8th placed team in the world.
But the big, big argument seems to be it's nothing to worry about and the real important issue, deemed worthy of detailed analysis, is whether the current bloke in charge is less shit than the previous bloke.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Yeahtheboys said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph as soon as each and every Scott Robertson dickrider has come to terms with reality
So no.
There's a button you can push... it would be better if people also stopped quoting cos button didn't stop that, sadly
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@Victor-Meldrew I think the record number of Test losses in a year is 5 in 1998. We're on to equal or better that - in fairness off 14 games not 7, but hey.
I really hope we're on the upward curve, but I'm yet to be convinced
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This post is deleted!
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Speaking of upward curves and longterm issues
If I can suggest one glaring issue from a quick glance at match stats, our reserve bench almost never add points since the start of 2023 against major teams.
The few that have are fast players for their position, DMac, Ioane, Coles etc.
Newell is there but in general we don't seem to be tiring the opposition, at most we are lucky to surprise them. Going back to 2023 reduced RWC, Clarke scored 1 off the bench against Oz but overall our bench is not a weapon.I suggest the AB bench has been conservative and expecting to maintain a standard or push ahead due to supposed superior fitness - but if so, it isn't working.
Further, usually there are 3 or so tries by backs for every single try by forwards but there haven't been many tries overall apart from blowouts against minnows. Quite clearly one factor is the Bok's impressive defence:
I'm interested to see how the bench does in the Bledisloe.
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It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
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The fuck? Has Landers not posted the team yet?
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
The fuck? Has Landers not posted the team yet?
@Landers92 what's the go bro?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Victor-Meldrew I think the record number of Test losses in a year is 5 in 1998. We're on to equal or better that - in fairness off 14 games not 7, but hey.
I really hope we're on the upward curve, but I'm yet to be convinced
6 In 1949. But it has huge asterisk that the team losing four in SA without any Maori players, was playing at the same time as the best of the rest losing two (at home) to Aus.
So 5 can be considered worst by unconditionally selected team.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
The fuck? Has Landers not posted the team yet?
Give the man a week
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@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
The fuck? Has Landers not posted the team yet?
@Landers92 what's the go bro?
Hahaha. Hopefully have some chat mid next week, always helps that they are back in NZ as well. Will try my best
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I know last week skewed the numbers, but it’s pretty wild that Oz have a -83 points differential over 4 games
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
If Razor had picked more form players from SR, I don't think he would have seen the level of discourse he's seeing now
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
I can kinda understand why he did go with what he did, mostly what he knew and then deferred to Ryan as well.
Maybe the EOYT is when we will see something a bit different (c 2002 ABs)
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
Unheard of? Lol utter bullshit. Hansen was supposed to stand down 2016, so foster had over two fucking years.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
Unheard of? Lol utter bullshit. Hansen was supposed to stand down 2016, so foster had over two fucking years.
I'm talking about from being officially named coach.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
Unheard of? Lol utter bullshit. Hansen was supposed to stand down 2016, so foster had over two fucking years.
I'm talking about from being officially named coach.
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
It was quite a seamless transition; the decline continued at a steady pace.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
Unheard of? Lol utter bullshit. Hansen was supposed to stand down 2016, so foster had over two fucking years.
I'm talking about from being officially named coach.
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
isn't that kind of the point....we didn;t want someone on the inside picking the same people theyd become mates with....the lead time Razor was given gave him plenty of time to go out and see all or at least most of the top players first hand. And thats ignoring the fact that a top level coach would already have a good idea about all the top players in the country just from oppo research
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@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
It was quite a seamless transition; the decline continued at a steady pace.
I posit that it was always likely.
Besides losing a bucketload of talent over the last decade, NZ is starting to look a bit like Australia, in that the systems haven't really evolved.
NZ still has enough bouyancy to sustain success, but the erosion of the club game, warehousing at schools, and changing demographics mean a refresh is needed.
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Australia 11/2, New Zealand 1/5, Draw 50/1
Surely Razor's mob won't fuck this one up?
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
Unheard of? Lol utter bullshit. Hansen was supposed to stand down 2016, so foster had over two fucking years.
I'm talking about from being officially named coach.
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
isn't that kind of the point....we didn;t want someone on the inside picking the same people theyd become mates with....the lead time Razor was given gave him plenty of time to go out and see all or at least most of the top players first hand. And thats ignoring the fact that a top level coach would already have a good idea about all the top players in the country just from oppo research
So what you're saying is Foster was not a shit selector as he picked the best available? ...
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@booboo no...im saying fozzie didn;t seem to know what options were outside the established camp...and razor is making some of the same mistakes....just without the excuse of being an inside man
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@sparky said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Australia 11/2, New Zealand 1/5, Draw 50/1
Surely Razor's mob won't fuck this one up?
Odds aren't short enough for the ABs
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo no...im saying fozzie didn;t seem to know what options were outside the established camp...and razor is making some of the same mistakes....just without the excuse of being an inside man
Perhaps Super doesn't make it easy or obvious for coaches' AB selection?
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@nostrildamus thats a worry isn't it? at most five games a week to watch and sometimes only 2, when you compare to managers/coaches of other national teams/sports where players could be spread across multiple teams in multiple competitions
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus thats a worry isn't it? at most five games a week to watch and sometimes only 2, when you compare to managers/coaches of other national teams/sports where players could be spread across multiple teams in multiple competitions
Yes plus coaches are human and go for their familiar players who in 2024 seem to be returning from injury and insufficient match practice...
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If we learnt anything from the SA games I suspect its that our experienced players we still have aren't the leaders they should be. Good players but not leaders. A Sam Whitelock plays and we win the first test because he has the mana and experience of how to lead to win difficult games.
The move to experience on the bench for the second test showed that our experienced guys werent able to bring the calmness required to win the game.
I think super is a much bigger step down after the demise of the aussies and not playing the saffas.
Super form isnt much of a yardstick for test ability now. Not enough pressure on players.
If you think Fozzie and Razor have a similar capabilty of players to pick from we are all in a dreamland. -
Having said that we really should stuff the aussies, they're even worse off than us!
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@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Having said that we really should stuff the aussies, they're even worse off than us!
I think they can pull off the occasional good game, they just don't have great depth in key positions or seasoned leaders (like us!)
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Without knowing the teams, and given the current weather forecast, I'll go ABs by 31-35.
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Without knowing the teams, and given the current weather forecast, I'll go ABs by 31-35.
I could live with that
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