All Blacks vs Wallabies I
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
Unheard of? Lol utter bullshit. Hansen was supposed to stand down 2016, so foster had over two fucking years.
I'm talking about from being officially named coach.
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
isn't that kind of the point....we didn;t want someone on the inside picking the same people theyd become mates with....the lead time Razor was given gave him plenty of time to go out and see all or at least most of the top players first hand. And thats ignoring the fact that a top level coach would already have a good idea about all the top players in the country just from oppo research
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@Snowy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
It was quite a seamless transition; the decline continued at a steady pace.
I posit that it was always likely.
Besides losing a bucketload of talent over the last decade, NZ is starting to look a bit like Australia, in that the systems haven't really evolved.
NZ still has enough bouyancy to sustain success, but the erosion of the club game, warehousing at schools, and changing demographics mean a refresh is needed.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It has to be said that 2024 is a very demanding itinerary for a young rebuilding AB team
Agreed. You can't keep looking at everything through the lens of the McCaw era.
It's not the losses that are annoying me.
It's the missed opportunity to turn the page on a number of these experienced players.
Razor needs to shape his own team not pick a team from the last RWC cycle.
Maybe AB coaches feel such pressure from fans and history they select far more conservatively than we might expect? Or maybe this is a result of consensus amongst the coaching team.
Either of those would seriously disappointing when you consider Razor and his coaching staff were named 12 months or so prior to his first test.
They knew what they were getting into.
It's an unheard of amount of lead in time.
Unheard of? Lol utter bullshit. Hansen was supposed to stand down 2016, so foster had over two fucking years.
I'm talking about from being officially named coach.
He knew he was going to be coach from then, even if not officially named. And he was in the camp with all the inside info that Razor wouldn't of had
isn't that kind of the point....we didn;t want someone on the inside picking the same people theyd become mates with....the lead time Razor was given gave him plenty of time to go out and see all or at least most of the top players first hand. And thats ignoring the fact that a top level coach would already have a good idea about all the top players in the country just from oppo research
So what you're saying is Foster was not a shit selector as he picked the best available? ...
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@booboo no...im saying fozzie didn;t seem to know what options were outside the established camp...and razor is making some of the same mistakes....just without the excuse of being an inside man
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo no...im saying fozzie didn;t seem to know what options were outside the established camp...and razor is making some of the same mistakes....just without the excuse of being an inside man
Perhaps Super doesn't make it easy or obvious for coaches' AB selection?
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@nostrildamus thats a worry isn't it? at most five games a week to watch and sometimes only 2, when you compare to managers/coaches of other national teams/sports where players could be spread across multiple teams in multiple competitions
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@nostrildamus thats a worry isn't it? at most five games a week to watch and sometimes only 2, when you compare to managers/coaches of other national teams/sports where players could be spread across multiple teams in multiple competitions
Yes plus coaches are human and go for their familiar players who in 2024 seem to be returning from injury and insufficient match practice...
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If we learnt anything from the SA games I suspect its that our experienced players we still have aren't the leaders they should be. Good players but not leaders. A Sam Whitelock plays and we win the first test because he has the mana and experience of how to lead to win difficult games.
The move to experience on the bench for the second test showed that our experienced guys werent able to bring the calmness required to win the game.
I think super is a much bigger step down after the demise of the aussies and not playing the saffas.
Super form isnt much of a yardstick for test ability now. Not enough pressure on players.
If you think Fozzie and Razor have a similar capabilty of players to pick from we are all in a dreamland. -
Having said that we really should stuff the aussies, they're even worse off than us!
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@Lancaster-Park said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Having said that we really should stuff the aussies, they're even worse off than us!
I think they can pull off the occasional good game, they just don't have great depth in key positions or seasoned leaders (like us!)
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Without knowing the teams, and given the current weather forecast, I'll go ABs by 31-35.
I could live with that
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Without knowing the teams, and given the current weather forecast, I'll go ABs by 31-35.
I could live with that
Noting that anything less than a complete thumping of this magnitude is a dismal failure 😜
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Without knowing the teams, and given the current weather forecast, I'll go ABs by 31-35.
I could live with that
Noting that anything less than a complete thumping of this magnitude is a dismal failure 😜
I'm confident a Kiwi coach will win this.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
It's an interesting thought eh. Most people in NZ think that the bench is for a mix of injury cover and ball runners. Because ball runners have 'Ãmpact', but to me it is a bit more complex than that and requires some thought about the opposition.
Scrums are only important when you have them. As we've seen this year you can go a full 40 mins without them. The bench selection has been terrible so far, and suggests the coaches don't even know what they want from the subs. Clearly, there is a lack of trust in the front row reserves given the minutes they get.
Charlie Faumuina was a good example of the impact a reserve prop could have, and they sacrificed scrummaging power for ball-carrying and workrate. Newell is essentially Franks MkII at the moment, and Ofa has done nothing despite all that "experience". This test is the perfect opportunity to see what Tosi can do.
Very keen on seeing Tosi vs the Wallabies. Would be less keen vs SA as I haven't seen him enough to be sure of his scrummaging, and while in some games you get none, equally in some games it can cost you the game.
Agree bench has been shithouse, and the attempt to fix it by moving experienced panic merchants BB and TJ there was a predictable failure. -
Ofa had an excellent season in the scrum for the Blues and I don't believe he was bested this year at test level either.
Tosi gained parity with Ofa in the Blues v Hurricanes game so I think he's a pretty strong scrummager. Strong enough under the current laws which mean less scrum resets.
Tosi could be a real weapon for us off the bench. He's probably the best close in tight five carrier in the squad and he can help set a platform for the others. He's also a good lifter and a good mauler.
It could be a real boost for us having someone of Williams size and Tosi's size for the duration of 80 minutes.
