All Blacks vs Wallabies I
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@ploughboy said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
i think we need to get over the idea of the bench just being the second best players
in some game at least the staring team just needs to be cohesive, make their tackles, kick goals, play for territory...it doesnt need to be razzle dazzle
pick combinations of players that know each other to start....and then have some game breakers on the bench, people like DMac and Savea can really change game or put one to bed in the final 20-30min
We should be picking a bench with x-factor. Maybe something along the lines of.
- Aumua 17. Numia 18. Tosi 19. Walker-Leawere 20. Lakai 21. Perenara 22. J Barrett 23. Naholo
your in wrong thread
we are picking all Blacks bench not the hurricames
It was an obvious piss take mate.
as was my reply
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
I don't want them to ring the changes at all, especially in the backs. We need Ratima-DMac-Jordie-Rieko getting as much game time together as they can. Making them play SA in SA and then dropping them for the Wallabies is 1) not fair to them at all (people are still referencing the Fiji game as if that meant anything at all) and 2) doesn't give them a chance to build combinations against easier opposition.
Guys like Proctor and Plummer can all ride the pine and get minutes off the bench to get them some experience playing in black.
On the back three, it's pretty clear now there's a big gap on the wings between Clarke/Jordan and the rest, so we have to hope like hell those two are fit against the better teams. Reece and Telea are adequate backups but don't provide anywhere near the same threat.
The only position that I see as wide open is the 15 jumper. Beauden's experience counts for a lot, but he's been too inconsistent this season. The injury to Perofeta was a shame as he was looking very good there, so I'd like to see him given another go first. If he struggles, then Love would be the next cab off the rank.
Has Telea been found out or has he run out of the oil he obviously greased himself up with before every game last year ?
The rapid drop off in his form has been incredible even by All Black wing standards.
He’s gone from being untackleable to wasting time with that sideways jinking shit. His pace looks well down too.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@booboo Plummer is 26 and only really in his second season of regular game time. He's hardly over the hill. He also led the champion team around the park excellently.
The Plummer hype needs to die down.
I mean the guys got 75 caps at super level. He's been around for 6 seasons now with plenty of opportunity to make an impression on the coaches yet hasnt been able to nail the starting 10 position at his own club.
For the vast majority of his Blues career when he wasnt behind Beauden, he was still behind Perofeta and Otere Black ffs. The only starts he got were when both of them were injured.
The Blues in 2021 won Super Rugby Trans Ta$man with Otere Black, with Plummer sitting on the bench.
Even this year in his breakthrough year, Plummer wasn't the preferred 10.
Perofeta started at 10 for the first 6 rounds until he got injured.The Blues record at that time, with Perofeta leading before injury was 5-1 (only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes).
Only once Perofeta got injured did Plummer get the starting 10 spot. Perofeta only came back 2 weeks before the knockouts.
A week after coming back he was immediately made starting 10 again.
The only reason he didn't continue as starting 10 for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan (as the only other experienced fullback) got injured, Perofeta was then moved to fullback to fill the spot and Plummer brought back into 10 for the rest of the playoffs.
So I find it difficult to imagine investing time in a guy for the AB's starting 10 spot when he wasn't even the preferred 10 at his own super club.
Even the coaches who spend the most time with him preferred other players we already have access to.
No one is pretending he's the second coming of DC, merely that since he's in the squad we should give him some time to see what a bigger body, that's displayed defensive capability, an ability to make good decisions keeping the ball in front of his forwards and giving his backline time and space could do for the team.
Because let's be honest here, McKenzie was really fucking average on the weekend. And good results come from competition for spots.
Exactly. I don't know why some posters seem to think this is a zero sum game. Just because we should try Plummer doesn't mean we need to bin DMac to do it
Sure. But isn't he just a stop gap until Perofeta comes back?
If our aim is to give players experience in positions we are planning long term, is there any point doing so with Plummer if he's just out of the squad once Perofeta is back?
In which case, isn't it just a better use of the limited tests we have a year to give our actual starting and long term 10 more and more experience as he doesn't even have 10 caps starting at this level in that position?
I have no faith in Perofeta. He couldn't even get past Plummer at the Blues. Until proven otherwise I don't see him as anything more than a utility, and I think there is greater potential in a few others
But that's not true. Perofeta was the first choice 10 for the first half of the season until he got injured, and the Blues were 5-1 with him, only losing to the top of the table Hurricanes away.
Plummer only got the start due to injury.
Perofeta was back from injury 3 weeks out from the playoffs, and the very next week he was the starting 10 again and immediately usurped Plummer.
The only reason Plummer was made 10 again for the rest of the playoffs is because Sullivan got injured, and Perofeta was the only other capable and experienced full back.
Perofeta had to fill in at fullback and so Plummer got the starting 10 position, again only through injury.As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
Google Darryl Mitchell NZ test career
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
I agree that's what they will do.
I'm saying in my opinion what they should do is keep Plummer as he showed enough during the business end of Super to deserve a shot.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Hmmm unsure about that. Perofeta missed an easy penalty against the Canes which cost us top spot in the end (didn't matter thankfully), then had possibly the worst game you'll ever see from a 10 against the Tahs which nearly cost us the game and then got injured after the Crusders game the next week.
I'd almost say that Plummer moving to 10 was a blessing in disguise for the Blues 2024 campaign.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
On reputation at the start of the season? Yes
On form at the end of the season? No
Anyway - let's agree to disagree and move on.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
Fair, we just see the season differently.
It does seem likely Plummer will be dropped once Perofeta is back (perhaps an assumption).
So feels difficult to justify giving a full test to someone who may just be temporary injury cover when we need to grow the first choicers combination and experience together.
That's my perspective on it
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
That's not entirely true
Forbes was very good for the Blues at fullback in Zarn's absence
Blues could have easily put Perofeta to 10 and put Forbes at 15
Plummer played so well they shifted Perofeta to 15.
Perofeta was the best 10, and probably the best fullback at the Blues.
The gap between Perofeta and Forbes at fullback was a bigger gap in experience than Perofeta and Plummer at 10 since Plummer has 5 years at the Blues.
If Sullivan didn't get injured, he would have been fullback and Perofeta the starting 10.
I think we'll have to agree to disagree, because that's not how I saw it. Plummer was no chancer who got a free ride at 10. He made a big contribution to the Blues winning the title, including lights out goalkicking
Fair, we just see the season differently.
It does seem likely Plummer will be dropped once Perofeta is back (perhaps an assumption).
So feels difficult to justify giving a full test to someone who may just be temporary injury cover when we need to grow the first choicers combination and experience together.
That's my perspective on it
The major philosophical difference is how we see Perofeta. I don't see him as being good enough for the ABs as a specialist 10 or 15, that's just my opinion. He could make it as a utility, but there are others who can also compete for that spot who have upside as well. I don't know if Plummer can make the jump. But based on his SR form I'd take a punt on him because he offers something different, I see him in more of a traditional AB 10 mold. And if he fails at least we won't die wondering
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@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks vs Wallabies I:
As I said before, seems odd to spend time on a guy for the ABs who wasnt even the preferred starting 10 at his own club.
Why do you care so much how he got the role?
He got an opportunity - he caught fire in career best form - he deserves a chance.
You're missing the Point. He only got the role due to injury and only kept it due to injury. Perofeta was the first choice 10 from start to finish.
And the Blues were just as dominant when Perofeta was leading the team before getting injured.
The coaches who see Plummer day in and day out at the Blues preferred Perofeta as the starting 10.
That's the point.
Adding further to this point he is only in the All Blacks due to Perofeta getting injured.
We only have 8 more tests, we should be giving time to actual long term ABs that we need to gain experience, not people that are literally injury cover temporarily.
Plummer will be gone immediately when Perofeta is back from injury.
So Perofeta gets injured a lot and Plummer is tougher so more suitable for test footy. Got it. Thanks!
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id say we will probably come out and pump the Wallabies and look ok doing it and not get really tested until the NH games, so we are probably not going to find out too much
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Yeah it will be great to look good and retain the Bledisloe but will ultimately be a false dawn - we know we can beat up OZ so what. The policy should be to expose some players and give them experience but somehow I expect the same 23 bar 1 or 2 to roll out.
