Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
Virtually all 30 players on the field will yell to the ref if they see something like a knock or head clash.
Just seems that the refs had heard of his reputation and were going to crack down on him hard.
Given the evidence we have, it’s not really penalisable (word?!) what he did. Given that he was the only one he got treated like that he was singled out.
Willie Le Roux runs in from 40 meters back for every decision haranguing the refs, making TMO squares with his fingers.
But for some reason TJP was on their radar for these games, which is a bit weird as he has been injured for over a year so didnt really have a recent body of work for the refs to go off. All he said in test one was "whats that". The ref completely over reacted.
They were prepped and waiting in the long grass for him to say something.
I don't think it's clear how much Perenara was complaining during the games.
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@Mr-Fish said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
Virtually all 30 players on the field will yell to the ref if they see something like a knock or head clash.
Just seems that the refs had heard of his reputation and were going to crack down on him hard.
Given the evidence we have, it’s not really penalisable (word?!) what he did. Given that he was the only one he got treated like that he was singled out.
Willie Le Roux runs in from 40 meters back for every decision haranguing the refs, making TMO squares with his fingers.
But for some reason TJP was on their radar for these games, which is a bit weird as he has been injured for over a year so didnt really have a recent body of work for the refs to go off. All he said in test one was "whats that". The ref completely over reacted.
They were prepped and waiting in the long grass for him to say something.
I don't think it's clear how much Perenara was complaining during the games.
Well the incident in test one which drew the ire of Andrew Brace was Perenara reacting to the South Africa player rolling away into Perenaras feet on our side of the ball while we were in their 22 with the Springboks at 6's and 7's. Perenera turns to the ref and says "whats that", with no swear words. It's on mic, on record. Brace then blows the whistle and gives him a bollocking.
The dice was loaded.
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Given it was the same reffing team from Test 1 to Test 2 (i.e. the same 3 people are ref/ARs but they rotate responsibilities), wouldn't you think mr experience Perenara would shut the fuck up when coming off the bench in Test 2 as opposed to getting warned again......
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Given it was the same reffing team from Test 1 to Test 2 (i.e. the same 3 people are ref/ARs but they rotate responsibilities), wouldn't you think mr experience Perenara would shut the fuck up when coming off the bench in Test 2 as opposed to getting warned again......
Naaaah, those fellas wouldn't talk to each other would they?
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate you think a major test between SA and the All Blacks is the place to set a new precedent where yappy halfbacks calling for penalties can not only be penalised, but sent from the field? Or, far more likely, it's a complete lack of composure from the ref and we won't see any other players penalised for the same thing. I say that because in the same test the SA 10 gave the TJ a spray and didn't even get talked to let alone penalised. Will Jordan also gave the ref his thoughts after being called for a knock on, but no warning? No penalty?
Like sure, penalise players that call for penalties if they think that's the correct response (I don't think it is), but do it consistently to all players across the whole test.
Try not to let your dislike of TJP cloud your judgement, we all get pissed at him hence the name Flapanara, but it's not a penalty offense unless he tries to insult the ref in some way, which he didn't.
I agree that he looks like he's been targeted by the refs and that the response was unreasonable when compared with all other examples we can point to.
But I'm also on the side of "I wish refs did this more often to shut players up". The soccerfication of the sport is pissing me off. And then there's the obvious recognition that had this been the approach much earlier in TJ's career, he wouldn't be flapanara and would concentrate more on keeping possession.
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@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
But I'm also on the side of "I wish refs did this more often to shut players up"
I am too. But that is not the way to go about it.
I would like every player who yells at the ref to get penalised. Every time. Every week. And then it will disappear.
Hell, I"d make it a penalisable offence to ask about cards from the ref! But, this is not the way to go about it. You don't do it randomly and for a fairly minor issue. You tell people you're doing it and then follow through ... so there are no surprises. Consistency is the key.
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@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
But I'm also on the side of "I wish refs did this more often to shut players up"
I am too. But that is not the way to go about it.
I would like every player who yells at the ref to get penalised. Every time. Every week. And then it will disappear.
Hell, I"d make it a penalisable offence to ask about cards from the ref! But, this is not the way to go about it. You don't do it randomly and for a fairly minor issue. You tell people you're doing it and then follow through ... so there are no surprises. Consistency is the key.
Yep, as soon as one other player screamed something similar and he didn't penalise them similarly it created an injustice.
Justice4TJP
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@W32 here you go https://www.planetrugby.com/news/not-off-your-referral-english-ref-hits-out-at-all-blacks-coach-after-suspected-foul-play
Bloody hell. Bok like behavior! Disgusting
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Given it was the same reffing team from Test 1 to Test 2 (i.e. the same 3 people are ref/ARs but they rotate responsibilities), wouldn't you think mr experience Perenara would shut the fuck up when coming off the bench in Test 2 as opposed to getting warned again......
Yes, it was poor from him to not learn.
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@W32 here you go https://www.planetrugby.com/news/not-off-your-referral-english-ref-hits-out-at-all-blacks-coach-after-suspected-foul-play
did he confuse Nic Gill for Ellison, only coach on the sidelines is Ellison who brings on the kicking tee lol.
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@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@W32 here you go https://www.planetrugby.com/news/not-off-your-referral-english-ref-hits-out-at-all-blacks-coach-after-suspected-foul-play
Bloody hell. Bok like behavior! Disgusting
Referee refusing to look at foul play after the captain tried to alert him to it.
So Poor by the ref they the ‘medic’ felt he had to intervene and draw his attention to it.
When the ref ignores blatant foul play, don’t be surprised if he is told about it from other sources.
Simples
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Mr-Fish said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
Virtually all 30 players on the field will yell to the ref if they see something like a knock or head clash.
Just seems that the refs had heard of his reputation and were going to crack down on him hard.
Given the evidence we have, it’s not really penalisable (word?!) what he did. Given that he was the only one he got treated like that he was singled out.
Willie Le Roux runs in from 40 meters back for every decision haranguing the refs, making TMO squares with his fingers.
But for some reason TJP was on their radar for these games, which is a bit weird as he has been injured for over a year so didnt really have a recent body of work for the refs to go off. All he said in test one was "whats that". The ref completely over reacted.
They were prepped and waiting in the long grass for him to say something.
I don't think it's clear how much Perenara was complaining during the games.
Well the incident in test one which drew the ire of Andrew Brace was Perenara reacting to the South Africa player rolling away into Perenaras feet on our side of the ball while we were in their 22 with the Springboks at 6's and 7's. Perenera turns to the ref and says "whats that", with no swear words. It's on mic, on record. Brace then blows the whistle and gives him a bollocking.
The dice was loaded.
We know he complained in that moment. We don't know how much Perenara had been complaining throughout the game in the lead-up to that moment. It's entirely possible he was frustrating the ref from the first minute and that's just when he finally penalised Perenara for it.
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@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Second half.
J
20 minutes left and Beaudy comes on to replace Will Jordan who has done precisely fuck all as fullback.Would have preferred Jordan to 14 and Reece to pine.
Jacobson comes on for Sititi which is an inspired substitution since he was doing more than Ardie...
le Roux is awarded a yellow card for a failed intercept as the All Blacks put together probably the best backline effort of the match so far.
Poor TV camera angles, but well judged yellow by WLR. Try saver but too far out for reffing team to have the balls to consider penalty try.
McKenzie hits the post, Jordie regathers and TJP throws a shitter of a pass to no one.
2m behind RD. He regathers but ruck 20m out. Accurate passing here and we were probably in. Boks offside at 64:13. Missed by refs.
Hot on attack Scott decides a falcon is better than catching the ball and South Africa are relieved of pressure.
At some point Williams the halfback was replaced by homeless Sideshow Bob.
Feinberg-Mngomezulu misses a penalty attempt from halfway. 22 dropout and Elrigh Louw gets sat on his arse by Codie with some help from Jacobson. Vaa'i is immediately over the ball despite three South African forwards trying to clean him out.
Ardie takes the lineout and inaccuracy in setting up the maul results in South African scrum. Another chance goes missing.
Penlty at halfway. Jordie should have taken shot as well within range. Another timid (and flawed) decision. Only gets ball out just outside 22.
Ofa's on for Williams.
RD takes a throw but drops ball on way down. Scrum Green.
Lomax gets penalised despite Steenekamp pulling down and folding inwards at the scrum.
Agreed penalty wrong way, but not helped that Lomax gassed.
South Africa moving slightly forwards so Carley blows that way. South Africa kick for touch and Vaa'i steals the lineout.
Steenekamp too slow to roll away and McKenzie with an opportunity 47m out and directly in front. Fucks it.
Kick went over post. Poor TV camera angle but may have actually been between posts when crossed the line. TMO anyone?
ABs attack from inside half and make good ground. Ball gets out to BB, who tries a fancy dink, which is charged, rather than kicking for territory.
Lomax gets a soft yellow card as Kolbe runs into his shoulder and ridiculously is on referral whether it should be a red card. A blot on his copybook in an otherwise fine game as he didn't need to shift his weight which is all Carley needed to penalise him.
Kolbe takes a dive and Carley suckered. Penalty only.
South Africa take the lineout maul option and again it's well repulsed by the Men in Black. Marx illegally changes his bind at the base, detaching and then reattaching, catches Reece napping and dives into the corner. Try awarded. Conversion is wide. Five minutes left and the score is 18 - 12
Kick off and a double knock on results in a Bok scrum. Feinberg-Mngomezulu waltzes between TJP and McKenzie, kicks ahead but the ball goes out inside NZ's 22. Camera pans to South African Jesus who has been replaced. Must've broken his other cheekbone.
Lineout won, TJP passes to McKenzie who passes to Ardie who decides it's best if he fights getting to ground so South Africa get more time to set up their defence. After Louw slows the ball down enough TJP gets to pass to McKenzie who
does something rather quite brilliantputs up a shit bomb which comes down on our 22 and South Africa have possession with less than four minutes left.Carley warns TJP that if he keeps talking he'll be sent from the field. Seems he didn't learn a fucking thing from the review of last week's effort.
ABs knock on off restart.
A minute to go 70 metres and there is absolutely no organisation in play. One final chance with a penalty, the All Blacks go for the lineout. South Africa win it, boot it into row Z and that's the game.
So two weeks in a row the All Blacks are leading at halftime and lose. Vaa'i had a stormer of a game ably assisted by Taylor. Cane tackled and won a turnover. Sititi grew into the game. Ardie needs to be replaced because if he's not giving away penalties trying too hard, he's a handbrake. TJP needs to be told he can go to Japan early. McKenzie is worse than a waste of space - he provides no direction and puts others under pressure. Jordie is rocks and cubic zirconias. Jordan was invisible. Both replacement wings were poor.
Coaching Jesus has now lost two in a row to South Africa and failed to win the Rugby Championship. His selections and gameplans are mystifyingly bad. As shit as the Wallabies played this morning, the Bledisloe is in a precarious position. We've been sold a pup and the emperor has no clothes.
Some poor decisions in test around taking shots with the right kicker. Two DMac 'misses'. Weak not to take scrum at end of H1.
Bench usage was deeply poor:
Ratima off when still going strong. TJS still a liability at end (P.S. Had Christie come on we'd probably have scored after rebound off post).
WS off, but Cane was gassed in last 15, so would have made more sense for him to depart.
Ofa ought to have come on 5 or 10 earlier. TW was exhausted.
Newell calf pulled before game meant could only play 5: FFS give Tosi a run (or Bower)
Taylor fantastic but would like to have seen Aumua get 15 at end.
Reece off rather than Telea. Or both off and Jordan to 14.
A new front row at 65 would have been just the impetus we needed to run over the Boks.
Another defeat grasped out of mouth of victory.
