Springboks vs All Blacks 2
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@reprobate you think a major test between SA and the All Blacks is the place to set a new precedent where yappy halfbacks calling for penalties can not only be penalised, but sent from the field? Or, far more likely, it's a complete lack of composure from the ref and we won't see any other players penalised for the same thing. I say that because in the same test the SA 10 gave the TJ a spray and didn't even get talked to let alone penalised. Will Jordan also gave the ref his thoughts after being called for a knock on, but no warning? No penalty?
Like sure, penalise players that call for penalties if they think that's the correct response (I don't think it is), but do it consistently to all players across the whole test.
Try not to let your dislike of TJP cloud your judgement, we all get pissed at him hence the name Flapanara, but it's not a penalty offense unless he tries to insult the ref in some way, which he didn't.
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@No-Quarter refs, not ref, and they didn't send him from the field.
No, of course it's not the ideal place for it, and of course I would like to see consistency.Nevertheless, it is a blight on the game, TJ is the worst serial offender I can think of, and I'm always going to be pleased to see it addressed.
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@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
Virtually all 30 players on the field will yell to the ref if they see something like a knock or head clash.
Just seems that the refs had heard of his reputation and were going to crack down on him hard.
Given the evidence we have, it’s not really penalisable (word?!) what he did. Given that he was the only one he got treated like that he was singled out.
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@pakman said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Second half.Jordie secures the kickoff. Good run by Sititi gets us outside the 22. McKenzie doesn't want the ball so narrows the available angle by passing to Jordie who punts downfield.
de Allende gets tackled by Vaa'i whose locking partner is straight over the ball and wins a penalty. McKenzie goes for a kick 56m out. Hits it wide and short.
Another thoughtless decision. It's a speculative kick, but the key is that ball goes over dead ball line so we get it kicked back to us 30m up the field. On any proper consideration give it straight to Jordie.
South Africa comes out of the change shed with an entirely different game. Passing, running and finding space.
At 44 minutes a metre forward pass by Boks on halfway missed. Ought to have been Black scrum in centre of field. In context of game a huge miss by officials.
All Blacks scrambling in defence. Less than five minutes of play and South Africa replace a winger and hooker.
South Africa batter away at the line and Etzebeth is clearly short but advantage for Williams for being offside. South Africa try again from a maul formed off a lineout. All Blacks stop this one from moving forward, Marx goes off the back and is tackled immediately by Taylor. Cane comes in for a Kwagga style turnover but Carley says that's only permissible for players wearing green despite Cane leaving it as soon as he went off his feet.
Cane didn't try for ball, but rolled out of ruck having taken a crawl forward. Is that illegal in act of rolling away?
South Africa try again and again their maul goes nowhere but a series of hitups around the corner results in South African Jesus doing enough between Cane and Ioane to stretch out and place the ball over the line.
Noticed AB forwards were slow to move to left of ruck at least twice.
South Africa take the lead 10 - 9 with a successful conversion and TJP comes onto the field because quite clearly this has all been Ratima's fault.
To make room for ALB (why?), Ioane is moved to the wing. Ioane makes ground when someone finally passes him the ball and Jordie immediately gives away a penalty by flying into the ruck, going off his feet and cleaning out only himself. For some reason he looks mystified.
It would have made more sense at that point to move Telea or Jordan to 14 (see below).
Malherbe, Weise and Pollard are tired, so they get a rest.
Contestable kick put up by South Africa and Jordan makes a reappearance only to not catch the ball. South Africa with a territorial gain. An attempted cross kick is charged down so the least worst starting wing (according to the All Black coaching staff) in Reece decides to grab the ball despite being clearly offside. South Africa with a penalty 40m out and Feinberg-Mngomezulu kicks it. Score widens to 13 - 9 in the 55th minute.
McKenzie again full of indecision, hands Jordie a hospital pass and South African Jesus obliges.
Lomax with an excellent turnover. Williams looks exhausted. ~30m out from South Africa's line and ~12 metres in from touch, Jordie manages to secure a lineout 20m out. Why is he kicking with that sort of accuracy? Some attacks that can't find space, we go back for a ruck penalty and Scott points to the posts. McKenzie kicks and the score narrows to a point. 13 - 12
In fact backs made it to 5m out, with DMac out back. Probably would have scored from EE slowing ruck but Rieko on right so no wing outside Jordan on left. Another brilliant Bok decision to sacrifice three to save five or seven.
20 minutes left and Beaudy comes on to replace Will Jordan who has done precisely fuck all as fullback.
Why is Reece still on???
Jacobson comes on for Sititi which is an inspired substitution since he was doing more than Ardie...
So Boks edge Q3 where AB fatties starting to look a tad slow, and midfield seems to get dropsies.
Again a reffing mistake integral to Bok try.
Another naive penalty choice hampers us.
Added to replacement bingo. TJS immediately on wrong side of ref, and Ratima was still going strong. Reece retained to make more cock ups. Probably ought to have subbed the mighty Williams at 55.
Mainly self inflicted wounds, although Marx had an excellent first five minutes.
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@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
Brace did it to Will Skelton too playing for La Rochelle.
He is a bit of a weirdo of a ref.
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@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
Virtually all 30 players on the field will yell to the ref if they see something like a knock or head clash.
Just seems that the refs had heard of his reputation and were going to crack down on him hard.
Given the evidence we have, it’s not really penalisable (word?!) what he did. Given that he was the only one he got treated like that he was singled out.
Willie Le Roux runs in from 40 meters back for every decision haranguing the refs, making TMO squares with his fingers.
But for some reason TJP was on their radar for these games, which is a bit weird as he has been injured for over a year so didnt really have a recent body of work for the refs to go off. All he said in test one was "whats that". The ref completely over reacted.
They were prepped and waiting in the long grass for him to say something.
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@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
And they dont seem to be accountable.
Like players get dropped, coaches get fired but refs dont have to front the media, and keep getting new assignments despite gaffe after gaffe.
And when they have really fucked up, the ole "people were mean to me on the internet" ace card gets played.
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
Virtually all 30 players on the field will yell to the ref if they see something like a knock or head clash.
Just seems that the refs had heard of his reputation and were going to crack down on him hard.
Given the evidence we have, it’s not really penalisable (word?!) what he did. Given that he was the only one he got treated like that he was singled out.
Willie Le Roux runs in from 40 meters back for every decision haranguing the refs, making TMO squares with his fingers.
But for some reason TJP was on their radar for these games, which is a bit weird as he has been injured for over a year so didnt really have a recent body of work for the refs to go off. All he said in test one was "whats that". The ref completely over reacted.
They were prepped and waiting in the long grass for him to say something.
I don't think it's clear how much Perenara was complaining during the games.
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@Mr-Fish said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@Canes4life said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
On the TJP thing, we all know he is too yappy at halfback but does anyone else think it is odd that the 2 refs have told him that he will be sent off if he talks to the ref again?
It's bullshit, if Justin Marshall was playing today he'd be sent off in the first 10 mins. That penalty on Sunday was utter bullshit. The Springboks player was lying all over our side of the ruck, TJ had every right to shout for a penalty. Refs are far too entitled these days and they are the biggest issue with International rugby IMO.
Virtually all 30 players on the field will yell to the ref if they see something like a knock or head clash.
Just seems that the refs had heard of his reputation and were going to crack down on him hard.
Given the evidence we have, it’s not really penalisable (word?!) what he did. Given that he was the only one he got treated like that he was singled out.
Willie Le Roux runs in from 40 meters back for every decision haranguing the refs, making TMO squares with his fingers.
But for some reason TJP was on their radar for these games, which is a bit weird as he has been injured for over a year so didnt really have a recent body of work for the refs to go off. All he said in test one was "whats that". The ref completely over reacted.
They were prepped and waiting in the long grass for him to say something.
I don't think it's clear how much Perenara was complaining during the games.
Well the incident in test one which drew the ire of Andrew Brace was Perenara reacting to the South Africa player rolling away into Perenaras feet on our side of the ball while we were in their 22 with the Springboks at 6's and 7's. Perenera turns to the ref and says "whats that", with no swear words. It's on mic, on record. Brace then blows the whistle and gives him a bollocking.
The dice was loaded.
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Given it was the same reffing team from Test 1 to Test 2 (i.e. the same 3 people are ref/ARs but they rotate responsibilities), wouldn't you think mr experience Perenara would shut the fuck up when coming off the bench in Test 2 as opposed to getting warned again......
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Given it was the same reffing team from Test 1 to Test 2 (i.e. the same 3 people are ref/ARs but they rotate responsibilities), wouldn't you think mr experience Perenara would shut the fuck up when coming off the bench in Test 2 as opposed to getting warned again......
Naaaah, those fellas wouldn't talk to each other would they?
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@No-Quarter said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@reprobate you think a major test between SA and the All Blacks is the place to set a new precedent where yappy halfbacks calling for penalties can not only be penalised, but sent from the field? Or, far more likely, it's a complete lack of composure from the ref and we won't see any other players penalised for the same thing. I say that because in the same test the SA 10 gave the TJ a spray and didn't even get talked to let alone penalised. Will Jordan also gave the ref his thoughts after being called for a knock on, but no warning? No penalty?
Like sure, penalise players that call for penalties if they think that's the correct response (I don't think it is), but do it consistently to all players across the whole test.
Try not to let your dislike of TJP cloud your judgement, we all get pissed at him hence the name Flapanara, but it's not a penalty offense unless he tries to insult the ref in some way, which he didn't.
I agree that he looks like he's been targeted by the refs and that the response was unreasonable when compared with all other examples we can point to.
But I'm also on the side of "I wish refs did this more often to shut players up". The soccerfication of the sport is pissing me off. And then there's the obvious recognition that had this been the approach much earlier in TJ's career, he wouldn't be flapanara and would concentrate more on keeping possession.
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@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
But I'm also on the side of "I wish refs did this more often to shut players up"
I am too. But that is not the way to go about it.
I would like every player who yells at the ref to get penalised. Every time. Every week. And then it will disappear.
Hell, I"d make it a penalisable offence to ask about cards from the ref! But, this is not the way to go about it. You don't do it randomly and for a fairly minor issue. You tell people you're doing it and then follow through ... so there are no surprises. Consistency is the key.
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@nzzp said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@antipodean said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
But I'm also on the side of "I wish refs did this more often to shut players up"
I am too. But that is not the way to go about it.
I would like every player who yells at the ref to get penalised. Every time. Every week. And then it will disappear.
Hell, I"d make it a penalisable offence to ask about cards from the ref! But, this is not the way to go about it. You don't do it randomly and for a fairly minor issue. You tell people you're doing it and then follow through ... so there are no surprises. Consistency is the key.
Yep, as soon as one other player screamed something similar and he didn't penalise them similarly it created an injustice.
Justice4TJP
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
@W32 here you go https://www.planetrugby.com/news/not-off-your-referral-english-ref-hits-out-at-all-blacks-coach-after-suspected-foul-play
Bloody hell. Bok like behavior! Disgusting
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@KiwiMurph said in Springboks vs All Blacks 2:
Given it was the same reffing team from Test 1 to Test 2 (i.e. the same 3 people are ref/ARs but they rotate responsibilities), wouldn't you think mr experience Perenara would shut the fuck up when coming off the bench in Test 2 as opposed to getting warned again......
Yes, it was poor from him to not learn.
