Springboks vs All Blacks I
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@Duluth said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Now that the niceties are over, it's time to give the Springboks their medicine
The All Blacks came with a bold game plan that day that hopefully Scott Robertson and his coaching staff remember.
Not much in this article.. it does discuss the possession based game plan that was successful last time these two played at Ellis Park.
Is that what the AB's go for again? Do the forwards have enough ball runners to play this way? What about the contact work and accuracy of the breakdown?
Not only that, they believe we’ve got ample evidence that Super Rugby is responsible for the Wallabies and All Blacks demise and how Europe has made the Springboks that much better.
In Ben's mind, the All Blacks are still #1. Good for him, and there's a good chance they will win tomorrow. But in the article he comes across as a bitter man.
The springboks are a different team with a different coach since the last time these two met. It's going to be fascinating to watch. -
Turns out Ian Foster actually never lost a Rugby Championship
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@Duluth said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Now that the niceties are over, it's time to give the Springboks their medicine
The All Blacks came with a bold game plan that day that hopefully Scott Robertson and his coaching staff remember.
Not much in this article.. it does discuss the possession based game plan that was successful last time these two played at Ellis Park.
Is that what the AB's go for again? Do the forwards have enough ball runners to play this way? What about the contact work and accuracy of the breakdown?
I do like the idea that Razor would copy Foster to register a crucial win.
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@Jet said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Serious stench of emperors clothes off the whole thing at the moment, with 2 games against the Boks, Ireland, England and France all to come.
Putting aside some of the loony hype around Robertson, it's too early to tell. So far there hasn't been much change and the old problems still seem to be there (esp the forwards) but I don't think we'll be able to see how things are working out until the EOYT.
I just hope Robertson manages to get some breathing space to develop things rather than finding himself with his back against the wall constantly needing to bounce back from a loss and win the next game at all costs.
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@Machpants which seems fair enough considering the hype around Razor in Foster's last couple of years.
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@Victor-Meldrew personally, I think the issue the ABs face is a systemic one. When they were dominant between 2005 to 2016/7, the ABs trained the players to be explosive and athletic. Not as much time spent in the gym becoming inflexible. This suited the laws as they were implemented at the time (for the most part).
Fast forward to the last 6 years, and look at the teams that have been in the ascendancy - SA, Ireland and France. Of these, the Irish are probably most like the ABs in terms of how the players are conditioned, but they have selected more big ball carriers than the ABs in certain positions (front row, no 8, 12) that has allowed them to control the gainline, IMO.
SA have de Allende and Esterhuizen at 12. France have a queue of large juggernauts at 12.
I like Jordie Barrett, but he is no Nonu, or SBW. Yet at least.
The ABs under McCaw had a strong scrum, were ultra efficient at line out time and collectively strong when competing at the breakdown to provide lightning fast ball in the early phases of possession to stress defences (yes, even rush defences a la Boks under White). The forwards sometimes gained ascendancy, but more often tied up opposing forward packs to allow the potency of their back line to wreak havoc. I think the current crop of AB forwards are capable of the same. Question is, can the back line use the ball and space they are provided with well enough? If not, the drums will beat louder for more power runners up front which will require a change of personnel and/or a change of conditioning for the players to be less athletic and more powerful.
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@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants which seems fair enough considering the hype around Razor in Foster's last couple of years.
The hype around Razor was beause Foster was so shit, obvs he wants the ABs to lose so he can crow - that is Grade A fluffybunny material.
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@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants which seems fair enough considering the hype around Razor in Foster's last couple of years.
The hype around Razor was beause Foster was so shit, obvs he wants the ABs to lose so he can crow - that is Grade A fluffybunny material.
You seem to be taking it a lot more seriously and reading a lot more info it than I did.
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@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants which seems fair enough considering the hype around Razor in Foster's last couple of years.
The hype around Razor was beause Foster was so shit, obvs he wants the ABs to lose so he can crow - that is Grade A fluffybunny material.
You seem to be taking it a lot more seriously and reading a lot more info it than I did.
First ten times I was ho ho ho good point, however for a guy with fuck all posts, and most of them are about this, it is getting on my tits
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@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants which seems fair enough considering the hype around Razor in Foster's last couple of years.
The hype around Razor was beause Foster was so shit, obvs he wants the ABs to lose so he can crow - that is Grade A fluffybunny material.
You seem to be taking it a lot more seriously and reading a lot more info it than I did.
First ten times I was ho ho ho good point, however for a guy with fuck all posts, and most of them are about this, it is getting on my tits
Another cheap shot at Foster
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@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants which seems fair enough considering the hype around Razor in Foster's last couple of years.
The hype around Razor was beause Foster was so shit, obvs he wants the ABs to lose so he can crow - that is Grade A fluffybunny material.
You seem to be taking it a lot more seriously and reading a lot more info it than I did.
First ten times I was ho ho ho good point, however for a guy with fuck all posts, and most of them are about this, it is getting on my tits
Another cheap shot at Foster
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@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew personally, I think the issue the ABs face is a systemic one. When they were dominant between 2005 to 2016/7, the ABs trained the players to be explosive and athletic. Not as much time spent in the gym becoming inflexible. This suited the laws as they were implemented at the time (for the most part).
Fast forward to the last 6 years, and look at the teams that have been in the ascendancy - SA, Ireland and France. Of these, the Irish are probably most like the ABs in terms of how the players are conditioned, but they have selected more big ball carriers than the ABs in certain positions (front row, no 8, 12) that has allowed them to control the gainline, IMO.
SA have de Allende and Esterhuizen at 12. France have a queue of large juggernauts at 12.
I like Jordie Barrett, but he is no Nonu, or SBW. Yet at least.
The ABs under McCaw had a strong scrum, were ultra efficient at line out time and collectively strong when competing at the breakdown to provide lightning fast ball in the early phases of possession to stress defences (yes, even rush defences a la Boks under White). The forwards sometimes gained ascendancy, but more often tied up opposing forward packs to allow the potency of their back line to wreak havoc. I think the current crop of AB forwards are capable of the same. Question is, can the back line use the ball and space they are provided with well enough? If not, the drums will beat louder for more power runners up front which will require a change of personnel and/or a change of conditioning for the players to be less athletic and more powerful.
Another systemic issue is player development. We haven't been great at U20 for a fair few years either. The AB XV is a move forward though, and I like the way Robertson is working with the SR teams (even if it involves Havili..)
It's good to see the likes of Ratima, Darry, Sititi and Proctor coming thru. Can understand Robertson not using them in game's like today's but hope he has the space and confidence to use them more in this RC
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew personally, I think the issue the ABs face is a systemic one. When they were dominant between 2005 to 2016/7, the ABs trained the players to be explosive and athletic. Not as much time spent in the gym becoming inflexible. This suited the laws as they were implemented at the time (for the most part).
Fast forward to the last 6 years, and look at the teams that have been in the ascendancy - SA, Ireland and France. Of these, the Irish are probably most like the ABs in terms of how the players are conditioned, but they have selected more big ball carriers than the ABs in certain positions (front row, no 8, 12) that has allowed them to control the gainline, IMO.
SA have de Allende and Esterhuizen at 12. France have a queue of large juggernauts at 12.
I like Jordie Barrett, but he is no Nonu, or SBW. Yet at least.
The ABs under McCaw had a strong scrum, were ultra efficient at line out time and collectively strong when competing at the breakdown to provide lightning fast ball in the early phases of possession to stress defences (yes, even rush defences a la Boks under White). The forwards sometimes gained ascendancy, but more often tied up opposing forward packs to allow the potency of their back line to wreak havoc. I think the current crop of AB forwards are capable of the same. Question is, can the back line use the ball and space they are provided with well enough? If not, the drums will beat louder for more power runners up front which will require a change of personnel and/or a change of conditioning for the players to be less athletic and more powerful.
Another systemic issue is player development. We haven't been great at U20 for a fair few years either. The AB XV is a move forward though, and I like the way Robertson is working with the SR teams (even if it involves Havili..)
It's good to see the likes of Ratima, Darry, Sititi and Proctor coming thru. Can understand Robertson not using them in game's like today's but hope he has the space and confidence to use them more in this RC
I dunno, I kinda feel like we used to be so dominant at age grade just due to the growing up with a rugby ball in your hands thing plus extra fitness, but were never really physically dominant, the physical growth tended to come later.
What with age grade academies in the rest of the world now, that aspect is dulled and the earlier physical development comes to the fore, something it seems NZ rugby doesn't push until a later age anyway, which is fine by me.
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@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Machpants which seems fair enough considering the hype around Razor in Foster's last couple of years.
The hype around Razor was beause Foster was so shit, obvs he wants the ABs to lose so he can crow - that is Grade A fluffybunny material.
You seem to be taking it a lot more seriously and reading a lot more info it than I did.
First ten times I was ho ho ho good point, however for a guy with fuck all posts, and most of them are about this, it is getting on my tits
Another cheap shot at Foster
That out of your Jason Ryan porn collection?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
Another systemic issue is player development. We haven't been great at U20 for a fair few years either.
South Africa have performed worse than us at U20 level in the last decade and they're doing ok, back to back World Champs.
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@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew personally, I think the issue the ABs face is a systemic one. When they were dominant between 2005 to 2016/7, the ABs trained the players to be explosive and athletic. Not as much time spent in the gym becoming inflexible. This suited the laws as they were implemented at the time (for the most part).
Fast forward to the last 6 years, and look at the teams that have been in the ascendancy - SA, Ireland and France. Of these, the Irish are probably most like the ABs in terms of how the players are conditioned, but they have selected more big ball carriers than the ABs in certain positions (front row, no 8, 12) that has allowed them to control the gainline, IMO.
SA have de Allende and Esterhuizen at 12. France have a queue of large juggernauts at 12.
I like Jordie Barrett, but he is no Nonu, or SBW. Yet at least.
The ABs under McCaw had a strong scrum, were ultra efficient at line out time and collectively strong when competing at the breakdown to provide lightning fast ball in the early phases of possession to stress defences (yes, even rush defences a la Boks under White). The forwards sometimes gained ascendancy, but more often tied up opposing forward packs to allow the potency of their back line to wreak havoc. I think the current crop of AB forwards are capable of the same. Question is, can the back line use the ball and space they are provided with well enough? If not, the drums will beat louder for more power runners up front which will require a change of personnel and/or a change of conditioning for the players to be less athletic and more powerful.
Another systemic issue is player development. We haven't been great at U20 for a fair few years either. The AB XV is a move forward though, and I like the way Robertson is working with the SR teams (even if it involves Havili..)
It's good to see the likes of Ratima, Darry, Sititi and Proctor coming thru. Can understand Robertson not using them in game's like today's but hope he has the space and confidence to use them more in this RC
I dunno, I kinda feel like we used to be so dominant at age grade just due to the growing up with a rugby ball in your hands thing plus extra fitness, but were never really physically dominant, the physical growth tended to come later.
What with age grade academies in the rest of the world now, that aspect is dulled and the earlier physical development comes to the fore, something it seems NZ rugby doesn't push until a later age anyway, which is fine by me.
Other countries have caught up for sure on age grade stuff, but I think we've missed a trick on the player development side of things. Whether is co-ordination, a national plan not being good enough or lack of opportunities to test players, I don't know.
I also worry about the mental side of things and player discipline.
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@W32 said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
The springboks are a different team with a different coach since the last time these two met. It's going to be fascinating to watch.
not just the Springboks!
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Bones said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@stodders said in Springboks vs All Blacks I:
@Victor-Meldrew personally, I think the issue the ABs face is a systemic one. When they were dominant between 2005 to 2016/7, the ABs trained the players to be explosive and athletic. Not as much time spent in the gym becoming inflexible. This suited the laws as they were implemented at the time (for the most part).
Fast forward to the last 6 years, and look at the teams that have been in the ascendancy - SA, Ireland and France. Of these, the Irish are probably most like the ABs in terms of how the players are conditioned, but they have selected more big ball carriers than the ABs in certain positions (front row, no 8, 12) that has allowed them to control the gainline, IMO.
SA have de Allende and Esterhuizen at 12. France have a queue of large juggernauts at 12.
I like Jordie Barrett, but he is no Nonu, or SBW. Yet at least.
The ABs under McCaw had a strong scrum, were ultra efficient at line out time and collectively strong when competing at the breakdown to provide lightning fast ball in the early phases of possession to stress defences (yes, even rush defences a la Boks under White). The forwards sometimes gained ascendancy, but more often tied up opposing forward packs to allow the potency of their back line to wreak havoc. I think the current crop of AB forwards are capable of the same. Question is, can the back line use the ball and space they are provided with well enough? If not, the drums will beat louder for more power runners up front which will require a change of personnel and/or a change of conditioning for the players to be less athletic and more powerful.
Another systemic issue is player development. We haven't been great at U20 for a fair few years either. The AB XV is a move forward though, and I like the way Robertson is working with the SR teams (even if it involves Havili..)
It's good to see the likes of Ratima, Darry, Sititi and Proctor coming thru. Can understand Robertson not using them in game's like today's but hope he has the space and confidence to use them more in this RC
I dunno, I kinda feel like we used to be so dominant at age grade just due to the growing up with a rugby ball in your hands thing plus extra fitness, but were never really physically dominant, the physical growth tended to come later.
What with age grade academies in the rest of the world now, that aspect is dulled and the earlier physical development comes to the fore, something it seems NZ rugby doesn't push until a later age anyway, which is fine by me.
Other countries have caught up for sure on age grade stuff, but I think we've missed a trick on the player development side of things. Whether is co-ordination, a national plan not being good enough or lack of opportunities to test players, I don't know.
Regarding player development you are right, it's much better for young players in the NH because they play more rugby, look at the growth of guys like Mack Hansen after leaving Aus and playing a full season of URC and Champions/Challenge Cup, etc. Super Rugby is too short.
Their U20's play more rugby than us in the NH as well.
