All Blacks vs Argentina I
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Jet you talk about 2015 stability, but how long did it take to get to that sort of stability? At least 3-4 years.
We are wanting stability when we’ve had another big exodus and that next crop are still very much inexperienced or haven’t been entrusted with the keys (yet).
Yeah - the forward pack that started the RWC final had 518 test caps.
The forward pack that finished last night had 209 - of which Ofa and Ardie account for 143 and the other 6 had 66 between them - and I daresay a good proportion of these have been from the bench.
You simply can't shed that amount of experience 300+ caps) and not expect there will be implications.
Hate to use the word, but there was a bit of a choke in the last 15 minutes once the Argies got their noses in front. We will need to grow some guys.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Jet everything you have described has happened before in the ABs. And with pretty successful teams.
Gibbes and Collins from week to week. Not the same player or approach to a game by any stretch.
Rodders to Lauaki from week to week. Very different number 8’s that offer strengths not aligned to a single philosophy of play.
I just don’t think it’s panic stations just yet.
Also welcome to the Fern (if you are indeed a newbie….)
We have had Frizell, Finau, Jacobsen, Blackadder at 6 in our last 5 games.
Meanwhile the super rugby winning 6 is at home scratching his bollox.
While I do take your point...is it not fair to say that the allblack selection policy is akin to a Jackson Pollock painting over the last few years? Just fucking shit at a wall and seeing what sticks.
Some interesting ideas in your posts, Jet - some I agree with, some I don't.
At blindside, though - Ryan has said he was very disappointed that Frizell was allowed to slip away. If he were available, I suspect he would have played 3/4 of these tests. But, he's gone to Japan so a change was enforced.
Finau pretty clearly struggled vs England, replacing him was probably a good idea.
And Jacobson played vs Fiji and was injured - so again an enforced change - had to be either to Blackadder or back to Finau.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Finau pretty clearly struggled vs England, replacing him was probably a good idea.
Come on man, if they showed half the persistence with Finau as was shown with Frizzel, I dare say he could live up to at least the same heights.
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@Bones Frizell played his first test in June 2018 and his second test in September. Four in his first year. It took him five years to be established as the clear first choice.
Kaino played his first test in 2004, his second and third in 2006, and his fourth in 2008.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Bones Frizell played his first test in June 2018 and his second test in September. Four in his first year. It took him five years to be established as the clear first choice.
Kaino played his first test in 2004, his second and third in 2006, and his fourth in 2008.
Right, so you're saying if they'd have been persisted with, we would have had established players much earlier? Good call.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
We will need to grow some guys.So it wasn't a good idea to drop Finau 😉
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@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
I yearn for the days of Henry, Smith and Hansen. This really was a well balanced coaching panel. Very well lead by Hnery who had the maturity to handle this job with ease
I think today the only one who comes close today is Jamie Joseph (NZR made a mistake not appointing him years back). Robertson is struggling. He seems like a very good man but does he have the maturity to do this job? I have my doubts.
If you look at that group Smith and Hansen were at least Henry's equals, just as influential as co-coaches, then you had Mike Cron, Mick Bryne and Gilbert Enoka as well. the 'three wise men' had 5 super titles between them and overseas success as well.
Razor has proven himself at every level, it's hard to question or doubt his credentials as a coach but his assistants McDonald and Holland (based on 2024 results) had ridiculously talented squads and couldn't deliver even one SR title in five seasons.
It's pretty clear the Blues and Canes underperformed under their watch, except for the Schmidt season (2022 Blues).
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
I yearn for the days of Henry, Smith and Hansen. This really was a well balanced coaching panel. Very well lead by Hnery who had the maturity to handle this job with ease
I think today the only one who comes close today is Jamie Joseph (NZR made a mistake not appointing him years back). Robertson is struggling. He seems like a very good man but does he have the maturity to do this job? I have my doubts.
If you look at that group Smith and Hansen were at least Henry's equals, just as influential as co-coaches, then you had Mike Cron, Mick Bryne and Gilbert Enoka as well. the 'three wise men' had 5 super titles between them and overseas success as well.
Razor has proven himself at every level, it's hard to question or doubt his credentials as a coach but his assistants McDonald and Holland (based on 2024 results) had ridiculously talented squads and couldn't deliver even one SR title in five seasons.
It's pretty clear the Blues and Canes underperformed under their watch, except for the Schmidt season (2022 Blues).
Better try to expand Wayne Smith's role....
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@Machpants said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
All went down hill once forwards could wear coloured boots
When I saw forwards with coloured hair and no short back and sides, and then heard stories of them playing video games in their spare time, it was officially over.
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@darylmitchell said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Razor has proven himself at every level, it's hard to question or doubt his credentials as a coach.
No he hasn't. He's had 4 Tests at home. Lost to the 7th rated team in the world and scratched a win from the 5th placed team in the world. It's actually real easy to question and doubt his coaching credentials.
Happy to cut him some slack due to his inexperience, but his Test-experienced forwards coach seems unable to get the forwards to perform consistently, get the basics right or maintain focus . That's where I'd hope he'd be looking at making some personnel changes.
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@game_film said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Watching the presser… Razor looks like he’s aged a decade. Thank god someone turned the air con off or whatever it was, a couple mins in. And can somebody please hand a mic to the journos so we can hear them?
Amateur hour
Every time
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@Victor-Meldrew I took it to mean every level up to test. Still arguable I guess if you look outside NZ.
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Victor-Meldrew I took it to mean every level up to test. Still arguable I guess if you look outside NZ.
For sure, and I don't think it's fair to pass judgement until the end of the RC or the EOYT, but the buck still stops with him regardless of experience.
Ryan has that international experience and the forwards have been shambolic too often for that problem to be ignored. That's something Robertson has got to own and fix.
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@Victor-Meldrew I thought Robertson was in charge of the loosies anyway?
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
Ok fellas, bottom line is we lost last night (looked poor), but positive we got Pumas at home next week, and they not really that good so we will win then. So will everything be ok then?
Um the Pumas will be pumped. It might be harder to beat them in round 2 than people think.
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
I'm getting real sick of hearing players say they've gotta take the learnings. And it irritates beyond the grammar; just why do you need to learn the same dumb shit time after time as professional rugby players?
Does losing actually hurt anymore? I can't imagine a bunch of these players would survive with All Blacks from previous the millenia.
Yep I feel exactly the same way, sick of hearing that shit,I reckon you are right it doesn't hurt these players enough when they lose its just another lose now.
It is starting as a Fan to make me feel the same as no end seems to be in sight.No wonder the games don't sell out right now. Not saying the players don't have pride (I'm sure they do), but there just doesn't seem to be the intensity to not lose as there used to. It's probably just me getting older... Apparently you can still buy tickets to EP for this weekend
It is clear the ABs were up for England, but I can't help but reflect that the San Diego junket was a serious setback.
Playing a thrown together Fijian team allowed some players to be run 'to give them a taste of test footy', but more so because the 'AB All Star' media circus is toxic to the AB mindset.
And so to Wellington, and ABs very much channeling 'it's only the Pumas' until the last 20 when it became 'shit, we're in DANGER of losing to the Pumas' and all composure went out the window. -
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Mattasaurus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Chris said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Aumua took a great time to throw so badly
No one jumped though. Just piss poor all around. Horrible game overall by the ABs.
Why are people blaming Aumua for a lineout where he had no targets? The whole thing was a debacle and speaks volumes about the coaching and selecting.
Fucking abysmal. At least Fozzie got us to a RWC final.
Because he didn’t throw one straight since he came on.
No. One. Jumped.
What every line out
Too difficult to grasp we're talking about the last lineout?
All 4 Amua fucked up by not throwing straight not just the last one.
Bahaha it wasn’t all Aumua’s fault. How does no one even jumping land on his shoulders. You’re just trying to deflect blame from poor coaching. Taylor was the shit throwing hooker in the two tests in England and we were lucky to get out of those tests without atleast one loss. Razor has a lot of work to do. The honeymoon is over.
He couldn’t hit fuck all tonight had a shocker
Terrible performance like a lot of them
TJ, Jordie just really poor.
Drop them all useless.Drop Taylor and Blackadder aswell. No effect at all. Blackadder flying back like that as our enforcer and then missing a one on one tackle under our posts was just embarrassing. Taylor shouldn’t have been starting tonight, he was garbage in the first two tests. Maybe starting Aumua would have given him more confidence instead of throwing him in last minute when we were already under the pump.
Again, it falls on Razor with shit selections and shit tactics.
He chose not to select the form Super players like Sotutu, Love, Lakai, Ioane etc so he can fall on the sword when it all turns to shit for all I care.
Drop the best lineouts thrower and the leading tackler... ...real smart 🙄
Lol the reason he tackled so much was because he kept turning the ball over with shit carries. But let’s just keep ignoring the poor performances of Razor’s mates in the team aye. 🙄
Aumua did one crooked lineout throw though. So we must keep a hooker strating who si well and truly past his best
100%
Minority view, but personally I prefer to start with a hooker who can throw straight.
