All Blacks vs Argentina I
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@Tordah said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
the good thing about the ABs slowly having become a good instead of an incredible team (circa 2010-2016) is that losses don't take an emotional toll on my well being anymore. Another loss? no problem, I'll go back to pretending rugby doesn't exist
It's sad, but when we lose I don't even bother to watch it.
Games are usually 1am for me and I work the following day, so I wait to see the results before I download it.
It's hard to get motivated to watch when we lose, which happens too often the last few years. -
Well I got up this morning and felt good.
Razor has let us know it's not his fault, after the game he made it clear it was players, as that's not how they trained!! And Ryan just after halftime made sure we all knew how dunb he thought Reece was with a tap back.
So we will be right (Fozzie should of taken notice on gow you do it) -
There was a distinct difference in the attacking structures of the two teams. The ABs almost always went for the box kick inside their half which didn’t really pay off once, instead it cost us dearly with the Reece knock back.
We also really struggle to make any go forward ball through the backline, the out the back pass to DM often leaves us behind the gainline. This is possibly our biggest issue as we simply cannot build pressure by going forward.
Argentina/SA in contrast seem to have no issue going forward through direct and backline play. Argentina from memory put up very few box kicks compared to us.
Argentina did a NZ and simply carved up with turnover and messy ball, they waited for NZ to make mistakes and make errors and capitalised on them.
The NZ lineout was actually very good with Taylor so I have no idea why it fell apart with Aumua, perhaps the other change at lock and loose forward confused the unit.
Loose forward is another issue. Far too many times we were isolated and got turned over. You can tell when the half back and wingers etc are committing to rucks we have a problem with our ruck work.
Lots to work on but for me it’s our attack and how we go forward is the biggest issue and of course our inability to dominate up front.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Honestly listening to this sounds like listening to aware children. They say the right things, but it's the excuses we've heard before for exactly the same transgressions. How can you not have patterns to exit? How do you not know to not throw passes to nobody? How do you not know that passing to someone without support is only going to put us under pressure and we'll likely give away a penalty as a result?
Let's be honest and say we lost this game more than our opposition won it because we placed ourselves under pressure with stupid or ineffective execution.
This was a big problem last night and a problem that has been around for a good few years now. We can't get momentum because of it. The Argies kicked off superbly. High deep kicks with determined chasers who pinned us in our 22. This is what teams have been doing to us because we have no way of effectively getting ourselves out of there. Our response is to maybe do one or two ineffective hit ups then use the half to put up a high ball (or kick to touch) or we'll give it one of our kickers to meekly punt it somewhere. It's not just an AB problem, this is a problem through out NZ rugby.
I don't really know what the answer is. I would love to see someone in the team that can kick us out of trouble but there is a lack of big kickers in NZ. Sullivan, Fihaki, and Stevenson spring to mind as exceptions but, apart from Sullivan, I don't see them having a future in Black. Jordie is not the answer. Every now and then he can pull off a big punt but he is not consistent and he is not accurate.
In a post full of good points @Jet mentioned the continued selection of B Barrett and Savea and having to fill in the pieces around them. Spot on. Both players upset the balance and neither one is currently good enough to justify that. It's time to move on from them and some others.
It's also time to move on from our game plan. It's not necessarily a Saders game plan, it's a New Zealand game plan of trying to play 'pretty' and running other teams ragged. Up until this year every team in NZ played a version of this. The Blues were a breath of fresh air and I was heartened a little to see Auckland and Northland play a more direct style in the opening round of the NPC. I hope that continues and we see more teams adapt to that way of playing.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Duluth said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Honestly listening to this sounds like listening to aware children. They say the right things, but it's the excuses we've heard before for exactly the same transgressions. How can you not have patterns to exit? How do you not know to not throw passes to nobody? How do you not know that passing to someone without support is only going to put us under pressure and we'll likely give away a penalty as a result?
Let's be honest and say we lost this game more than our opposition won it because we placed ourselves under pressure with stupid or ineffective execution.
THIS.
I haven't watched the press conference, not sure I can stomach it - after watching the on-field post-match interview... which did not fill me with confidence that Scott knows what he's doing. Horribly vague answers, and completely ignoring/avoiding questions.
And the final question: "What are the first things you're going to be talking about on Monday?"
"Umm, yeah, I think we'll probably try to figure out what things we need to improve on" - repeated 3 times with slightly different phrasing each time.
Um, no shit Scott... THAT WAS THE QUESTION!Normally I'd expect a massive backlash in the next game, but... I'm not sure this time. I'll be hoping, but not assuming.
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@Tordah said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
the good thing about the ABs slowly having become a good instead of an incredible team (circa 2010-2016) is that losses don't take an emotional toll on my well being anymore. Another loss? no problem, I'll go back to pretending rugby doesn't exist
This post sums up NZ in general I reckon. I don’t think Razor will be in any danger of being on Rugby News covers with the word “Guilty” in big red letters anytime soon.
I was never comfortable with the media jizz fest about him being appointed as some sort of saviour either, cringy as fuck. ( which I guess is not surprising for NZ media )
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@Jet 100%. On further inspection, Razor’s answers and demeanour and tone need a hell of a lot of work. Looked like a broken man, who - just like us - was wondering what just happened. Confidence drained from him. Fascinated to see what comes next.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor looked and sounded meek. I cant picture him giving them a half time spray at all.
The body language from himself and Ardie was (for want of a better adjective) Beta.
Early days but he is looking like a man under the pump already,
And I’m not so sure it’s just a win loss thing,
But more how he visualised in his mind he could coach them to play, what he thought would be the winning formula, isn’t working on the field
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor looked and sounded meek. I cant picture him giving them a half time spray at all.
The body language from himself and Ardie was (for want of a better adjective) Beta.
Early days but he is looking like a man under the pump already,
And I’m not so sure it’s just a win loss thing,
But more how he visualised in his mind he could coach them to play, what he thought would be the winning formula, isn’t working on the field
Razor is in a tricky spot now. Does he change things up and risk looking like he stuffed up and/or getting accused of not knowing what he is doing, or does he back his original plan despite the early stumbling?
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor looked and sounded meek. I cant picture him giving them a half time spray at all.
The body language from himself and Ardie was (for want of a better adjective) Beta.
Early days but he is looking like a man under the pump already,
And I’m not so sure it’s just a win loss thing,
But more how he visualised in his mind he could coach them to play, what he thought would be the winning formula, isn’t working on the field
Razor is in a tricky spot now. Does he change things up and risk looking like he stuffed up and/or getting accused of not knowing what he is doing, or does he back his original plan despite the early stumbling?
Everyone has plans until you get smashed in the mouth....
Maybe his team underestimated how hard it would be to execute his vision for the ABs. The longer he does the same thing with no significant improvement in performance or results it will start to look like arrogance and pig headedness.
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The blueprint is there! The periods of play that led to ALB and Telea's try were awesome (I hope to God that's not the point where we deviated from coach instructions). But we're in need of tweaks.
And seriously the team needs more bodies in motion. Even the ruthlessly efficient Boks have more guys moving off the ball than we do.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
The blueprint is there! The periods of play that led to ALB and Telea's try were awesome (I hope to God that's not the point where we deviated from coach instructions). But we're in need of tweaks.
And seriously the team needs more bodies in motion. Even the ruthlessly efficient Boks have more guys moving off the ball than we do.
Those periods of play were the exception rather than the rule last night
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It was weird. We could do that. Our lineout was rick solid, we had the ball, we just couldn't do much with it, and our ruck was under huge pressure.
Something is broken somewhere.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
It was weird. We could do that. Our lineout was rick solid, we had the ball, we just couldn't do much with it, and our ruck was under huge pressure.
Something is broken somewhere.
Bad game plan?
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Lack of leadership was massive in this game. Savea is humble and reticient by nature. Slightly unfortunate that Scott was injured.
Barrett leading a more simple gameplan of forward drives and short passes would have been way more productive and less risky.
Endlessly recycling crap ball to DMac and JB was reminiscent of the not so good old days. -
Well done Argentina, you brought passion, skills and confidence to the game…everything the ABs lacked as a team. Some individual brilliance from the ABs ( Darry comes to mind, he’s a keeper) but overall a dispiriting performance. There’s no way we’re going to win in Africa, watch the Saffas v Australia game. The Bokke have lifted their game since the WC, still have magnificent forward play but overall they have evolved with a wider,more expansive game plan.
The ABs have gone nowhere. Our loosies are the key problem area but I don’t have the knowledge to know if we have any alternatives out there.
It’s going to be a long tough RC and does Robertson and his myriad assistants have what it takes to turn it around? The CakeTin curse continues but a loss at Eden Park is unthinkable . -
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor looked and sounded meek. I cant picture him giving them a half time spray at all.
The body language from himself and Ardie was (for want of a better adjective) Beta.
Early days but he is looking like a man under the pump already,
And I’m not so sure it’s just a win loss thing,
But more how he visualised in his mind he could coach them to play, what he thought would be the winning formula, isn’t working on the field
Razor is in a tricky spot now. Does he change things up and risk looking like he stuffed up and/or getting accused of not knowing what he is doing, or does he back his original plan despite the early stumbling?
What was the original plan, play like headless chickens? That seems to be working.
But yeah he can and should change things, use the good halfbacks, make Ardie compete for his place and choose loosies who can work together and win ball, drop Telea if he isn't fast and confident enough, improve lineouts and kicking and passing under pressure, settle on an impactful but secure midfield.
Review captaincy. -
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Argentina I - 10 August:
Razor looked and sounded meek. I cant picture him giving them a half time spray at all.
The body language from himself and Ardie was (for want of a better adjective) Beta.
Early days but he is looking like a man under the pump already,
And I’m not so sure it’s just a win loss thing,
But more how he visualised in his mind he could coach them to play, what he thought would be the winning formula, isn’t working on the field
Razor is in a tricky spot now. Does he change things up and risk looking like he stuffed up and/or getting accused of not knowing what he is doing, or does he back his original plan despite the early stumbling?
Everyone has plans until you get smashed in the mouth....
Maybe his team underestimated how hard it would be to execute his vision for the ABs. The longer he does the same thing with no significant improvement in performance or results it will START to look like arrogance and pig headedness.
It will continue to look like earlier coaches...
