All Blacks vs Wales

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="581972" data-time="1464028767">
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I wonder about Kaino , he does look a bit flat ( but its only super rugby ) , and there are contenders knocking on the door , 
 
He signed a while back to make himself available for the Lions tour , 33 now
 
 I guess we judge him how he goes in black , his last few games he went pretty well 
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Kaino has a presence about him on the field. You notice it a lot and his involvements tend to be impactful. 
 
A couple of years ago Luatua was looking like the natural incumbent, to be fighting it out with Shields. 
 
At the moment, the only one who looks like is Elliott Dixon. Taufua is certainly a talent, but we tend to have a big, hard bastard at 6 and I'm just not sure he's that bloke. He looks more like a Messam, who in turn looked like a Masoe.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="582098" data-time="1464051240">
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A couple of years ago Luatua was looking like the natural incumbent, to be fighting it out with Shields. 
 
At the moment, the only one who looks like is Elliott Dixon. 
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I'd say that the selectors will take Luatua over Dixon. I reckon Luatua has the better test game for bench cover (miles ahead), as well as for a starting team.
 
Happy to be proved wrong, but I'd be very surprised to see Dixon over Luatua.

SammyC

Whitelock out of this weekend game with a hamstring injury. 
 
Depending on how serious it is, may open the door for another lock.

sparky

Wales have already been in camp for a couple of weeks and have a warm-up game against England this weekend. The All Blacks won't really get down to training until this time next week. Wales have lots of very good players and in Faletau, Biggar and North some who are world class. Gatland will regard this as his audition for the Lions gig. New Zealand needs to replace the retired legends and have other world class players injured or doubtful. The first test has banana skin written all over it. A massive chance for the Welsh to record their first win against the ABs in 63 years.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="582231" data-time="1464079246">Wales have already been in camp for a couple of weeks and have a warm-up game against England this weekend. The All Blacks won't really get down to training until this time next week. Wales have lots of very good players and in Faletau, Biggar and North some who are world class. Gatland will regard this as his audition for the Lions gig. New Zealand needs to replace the retired legends and have other world class players injured or doubtful. The first test has banana skin written all over it. A massive chance for the Welsh to record their first win against the ABs in 63 years.</blockquote>
 
ABs by 15

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="582098" data-time="1464051240">Kaino has a presence about him on the field. You notice it a lot and his involvements tend to be impactful. 
A couple of years ago Luatua was looking like the natural incumbent, to be fighting it out with Shields. 
At the moment, the only one who looks like is Elliott Dixon. Taufua is certainly a talent, but we tend to have a big, hard bastard at 6 and I'm just not sure he's that bloke. He looks more like a Messam, who in turn looked like a Masoe.</blockquote>
 
I'd say Masoe and Messam were quite different players. The ABs didn't miss a beat IMO when Messam started at blindside while Kaino was away. I like Messam's game. To me he was more Rodders like, doing a lot of the little stuff to open up the play for McCaw and Read.

mariner4life

North? Haha he's done fuck all since the Lions. Biggar? Really? 
AWJ is their best player in my opinion

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582234" data-time="1464080873">
I'd say Masoe and Messam were quite different players. The ABs didn't miss a beat IMO when Messam started at blindside while Kaino was away. I like Messam's game. To me he was more Rodders like, doing a lot of the little stuff to open up the play for McCaw and Read.</blockquote>
 
I've always liked you

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582233" data-time="1464080675">
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ABs by 15
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Possibly, I think by ABs 5-10. The All Blacks have a superb squad of players to choose from but will they have enough time to gel before the First Test?

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="582235" data-time="1464080887">
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North? Haha he's done fuck all since the Lions. Biggar? Really? 
AWJ is their best player in my opinion
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AWJ is a very good player, but I wouldn't swap him for Retallick or Whitelock. Biggar was outstanding against England in RWC and has had a very good season.
 
North was excellent for Wales in this year's 6 Nations, arguably the best back in a very dour tournament:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='

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ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="582237" data-time="1464080987">Possibly, I think by ABs 5-10. The All Blacks have a superb squad of players to choose from but will they have enough time to gel before the First Test?</blockquote>
 
You make it sound like they will be meeting each other for the first time coming into the opening test. If Hansen goes with the 23 I posted earlier in the thread - and he should [emoji41] - then there are established combos all over the park. Even the midfield have played tests together. 
Because of the limited time prior, then I think they will keep things simple and focus on building defensive pressure.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582234" data-time="1464080873">
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I'd say Masoe and Messam were quite different players. The ABs didn't miss a beat IMO when Messam started at blindside while Kaino was away. I like Messam's game. To me he was more Rodders like, doing a lot of the little stuff to open up the play for McCaw and Read.
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Agreed, but Masoe always had his bench spot because he covered the entire back row. I always felt Messam was perfect for that role - and you are right that when he started at 6 with Kaino away, he made a good fist of it. But the second Kaino was back, he was starting again.
 
For me, Messams career has been defined by Cruden's last minute kick to win the Ireland match. That was real hand-on leadership, right there.

sparky

Scotty Stevenson thinks there will be little room for newcomers and I agree. The usual suspects are playing well so no need for any experimental selections or massive bolters. Steven Lautau and Reggie Goodes are probably the only names he has missing that would be in my First Test 23.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11643969'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11643969</a>

MiketheSnow

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582233" data-time="1464080675">
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ABs by 15
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I'll take that :)

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582234" data-time="1464080873">
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I'd say Masoe and Messam were quite different players. The ABs didn't miss a beat IMO when Messam started at blindside while Kaino was away. I like Messam's game. To me he was more Rodders like, doing a lot of the little stuff to open up the play for McCaw and Read.
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So basically, our next blindside should be someone who's flashy and wide ranging, now like Kaino and Messam were in their younger days, and will be hard working machines in a couple of years.

Bovidae

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="582231" data-time="1464079246">
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The first test has banana skin written all over it. A massive chance for the Welsh to record their first win against the ABs in 63 years.
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Astute scheduling by NZR to play it at Eden Park then. :)

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Bovidae" data-cid="582248" data-time="1464083300">
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Astute scheduling by NZR to play it at Eden Park then. :)
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England nearly won at Fortress Eden in the First Test a couple of years ago. Conrad Smith's late try denied them glory:
 
Sparkyâ€™s Team for 1st test with number of caps
 
1 Moody (11) 2 Coles (36) 3 Owen Franks (78) 4 Retallick (47) 5 S Whitelock (73) (or Tuipulotu (7) if he canâ€™t recover in time) 6 Kaino (67) 7 Cane (31) 8 Read (84) Â© 
9 A Smith(47) 10 Cruden (37) 11 J Savea (41) 12 Crotty (15) 13 Fekitoa (13) 14 Naholo (3) 15 B Smith (48)
 
16 Goodes (0) 17 Taylor (4) 18 Faumuina (33) 19 Luatua (14) 20 A Savea (0) 21 Weber (1) 22 Barrett (36) 23 Ngatai (1) (or Dagg (48) if he canâ€™t recover in time)

KiwiMurph

Not sure there is much use having both Barrett and Dagg on the bench - if Ngatai can't go then someone like Moala would be useful (covers wing, midfield)

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="582235" data-time="1464080887">
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North? Haha he's done fuck all since the Lions. Biggar? Really? 
AWJ is their best player in my opinion
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No love for Roberts or Davies ? best midfield partnership in the game surely......

pooler fan

A lot of the Welsh players will have had a fair few weeks off which could work for us or against us. 
Gats biggest mistake IMHO is not selecting on form (again), I understand his arguments that NZ is the last place you blood rookies but it could also be the best. I mean what better yardstick could you have to measure yourself against than a 3 test tour against the Blacks ? 
Seems shortsighted to me, we've one genuine 7 in Warburton on tour but a couple of others playing really well here in Ellis Jenkins & James Davies (little brother of centre Jonathan). 
A blindside in Olly Cracknell who's been keeping Lydiate on the bench at the Ospreys. 
At least 2 of these should be touring.

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales