All Blacks vs Wales

taniwharugby

If they think he can't handle being a 'starter' and being in this huge leadership team then I don't think they think much of him...be very surprised if he has been 'dropped' from it, and I doubt he'd ask to be removed from it. 
As to the leadership in that RWC game, yeah let's hold that over him and drop him from the leadership team

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="581711" data-time="1463943656">
As to the leadership in that RWC game, yeah let's hold that over him and drop him from the leadership team</blockquote>
 
Yes to be fair leading the team bonding bar crawl probably was a better test of leadership than that Namibian pool game. 
Certainly an oversight. I don't believe a single guy has been dropped from the leadership group without losing their spot in the team.

cgrant

Nathan Harris did not impress vs the Rebels. Two tackles in less than 30 seconds and a crooked throw at a line out. Showed great speed for his try (?) though.

Immenso Rapido

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Crash" data-cid="581632" data-time="1463909885">
Yeah - my point being (probably didn't make clear) was that there are similar types of players around (forgot to add Blade Thomson in the mix as well) - and Taufua would need to offer something markedly different from those on the fringe of selection. Think he's too short for a lock/6?</blockquote>
 
I think Taufua could be a contender, as a starter only though for me. In the Collins/Kaino rib rattler role. For the bench they would want more height and versatility. 
But he wouldn't be a starter v Wales. But Kaino doesn't have long left. 
I would miss the awesome 4 lineout options though, but it's not that dissimilar to having Messam in starting lineup.

gt12

I'm the other side IR, I reckon his value lies in being able to pick up the Masoe role, so could be a bench spot. 
I still wouldn't pick him.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="taniwharugby" data-cid="581711" data-time="1463943656">If they think he can't handle being a 'starter' and being in this huge leadership team then I don't think they think much of him...be very surprised if he has been 'dropped' from it, and I doubt he'd ask to be removed from it. 
As to the leadership in that RWC game, yeah let's hold that over him and drop him from the leadership team</blockquote>
 
Perhaps it's a case of they change things up from time to time rather than being dropped per se. Cane is still pretty young so I wouldn't be surprised if he's not in it this time round, but could be in it in the future.

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Immenso Rapido" data-cid="581746" data-time="1463957831">
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I think Taufua could be a contender, as a starter only though for me. In the Collins/Kaino rib rattler role. For the bench they would want more height and versatility. 
But he wouldn't be a starter v Wales. But Kaino doesn't have long left. 
I would miss the awesome 4 lineout options though, but it's not that dissimilar to having Messam in starting lineup.
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I wonder about Kaino , he does look a bit flat ( but its only super rugby ) , and there are contenders knocking on the door , 
 
He signed a while back to make himself available for the Lions tour , 33 now
 
 I guess we judge him how he goes in black , his last few games he went pretty well

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="kiwiinmelb" data-cid="581972" data-time="1464028767">
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I wonder about Kaino , he does look a bit flat ( but its only super rugby ) , and there are contenders knocking on the door , 
 
He signed a while back to make himself available for the Lions tour , 33 now
 
 I guess we judge him how he goes in black , his last few games he went pretty well 
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Kaino has a presence about him on the field. You notice it a lot and his involvements tend to be impactful. 
 
A couple of years ago Luatua was looking like the natural incumbent, to be fighting it out with Shields. 
 
At the moment, the only one who looks like is Elliott Dixon. Taufua is certainly a talent, but we tend to have a big, hard bastard at 6 and I'm just not sure he's that bloke. He looks more like a Messam, who in turn looked like a Masoe.

nzzp

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="582098" data-time="1464051240">
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A couple of years ago Luatua was looking like the natural incumbent, to be fighting it out with Shields. 
 
At the moment, the only one who looks like is Elliott Dixon. 
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I'd say that the selectors will take Luatua over Dixon. I reckon Luatua has the better test game for bench cover (miles ahead), as well as for a starting team.
 
Happy to be proved wrong, but I'd be very surprised to see Dixon over Luatua.

SammyC

Whitelock out of this weekend game with a hamstring injury. 
 
Depending on how serious it is, may open the door for another lock.

sparky

Wales have already been in camp for a couple of weeks and have a warm-up game against England this weekend. The All Blacks won't really get down to training until this time next week. Wales have lots of very good players and in Faletau, Biggar and North some who are world class. Gatland will regard this as his audition for the Lions gig. New Zealand needs to replace the retired legends and have other world class players injured or doubtful. The first test has banana skin written all over it. A massive chance for the Welsh to record their first win against the ABs in 63 years.

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="582231" data-time="1464079246">Wales have already been in camp for a couple of weeks and have a warm-up game against England this weekend. The All Blacks won't really get down to training until this time next week. Wales have lots of very good players and in Faletau, Biggar and North some who are world class. Gatland will regard this as his audition for the Lions gig. New Zealand needs to replace the retired legends and have other world class players injured or doubtful. The first test has banana skin written all over it. A massive chance for the Welsh to record their first win against the ABs in 63 years.</blockquote>
 
ABs by 15

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="MajorRage" data-cid="582098" data-time="1464051240">Kaino has a presence about him on the field. You notice it a lot and his involvements tend to be impactful. 
A couple of years ago Luatua was looking like the natural incumbent, to be fighting it out with Shields. 
At the moment, the only one who looks like is Elliott Dixon. Taufua is certainly a talent, but we tend to have a big, hard bastard at 6 and I'm just not sure he's that bloke. He looks more like a Messam, who in turn looked like a Masoe.</blockquote>
 
I'd say Masoe and Messam were quite different players. The ABs didn't miss a beat IMO when Messam started at blindside while Kaino was away. I like Messam's game. To me he was more Rodders like, doing a lot of the little stuff to open up the play for McCaw and Read.

mariner4life

North? Haha he's done fuck all since the Lions. Biggar? Really? 
AWJ is their best player in my opinion

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582234" data-time="1464080873">
I'd say Masoe and Messam were quite different players. The ABs didn't miss a beat IMO when Messam started at blindside while Kaino was away. I like Messam's game. To me he was more Rodders like, doing a lot of the little stuff to open up the play for McCaw and Read.</blockquote>
 
I've always liked you

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582233" data-time="1464080675">
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ABs by 15
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Possibly, I think by ABs 5-10. The All Blacks have a superb squad of players to choose from but will they have enough time to gel before the First Test?

sparky

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="582235" data-time="1464080887">
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North? Haha he's done fuck all since the Lions. Biggar? Really? 
AWJ is their best player in my opinion
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AWJ is a very good player, but I wouldn't swap him for Retallick or Whitelock. Biggar was outstanding against England in RWC and has had a very good season.
 
North was excellent for Wales in this year's 6 Nations, arguably the best back in a very dour tournament:
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='

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ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="sparky" data-cid="582237" data-time="1464080987">Possibly, I think by ABs 5-10. The All Blacks have a superb squad of players to choose from but will they have enough time to gel before the First Test?</blockquote>
 
You make it sound like they will be meeting each other for the first time coming into the opening test. If Hansen goes with the 23 I posted earlier in the thread - and he should [emoji41] - then there are established combos all over the park. Even the midfield have played tests together. 
Because of the limited time prior, then I think they will keep things simple and focus on building defensive pressure.

MajorRage

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="582234" data-time="1464080873">
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I'd say Masoe and Messam were quite different players. The ABs didn't miss a beat IMO when Messam started at blindside while Kaino was away. I like Messam's game. To me he was more Rodders like, doing a lot of the little stuff to open up the play for McCaw and Read.
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Agreed, but Masoe always had his bench spot because he covered the entire back row. I always felt Messam was perfect for that role - and you are right that when he started at 6 with Kaino away, he made a good fist of it. But the second Kaino was back, he was starting again.
 
For me, Messams career has been defined by Cruden's last minute kick to win the Ireland match. That was real hand-on leadership, right there.

sparky

Scotty Stevenson thinks there will be little room for newcomers and I agree. The usual suspects are playing well so no need for any experimental selections or massive bolters. Steven Lautau and Reggie Goodes are probably the only names he has missing that would be in my First Test 23.
 
<a data-ipb='nomediaparse' href='http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11643969'>http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11643969</a>

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales