All Blacks vs Wales

Provincial Stalwart

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Billy Tell" data-cid="580803" data-time="1463655381">We are not losing to Wales at home.</blockquote>
I'm not sayin' we are losing to wales. My comment is more aimed at the fact that champion teams that get their personnel dismantled usually go one way pretty quickly, but no-one expects that to happen next month or in fact at all this year. 
Sent from my VF-895N using Tapatalk

hydro11

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="580801" data-time="1463654967">
<div>
So, everyone's confidence levels are pretty high for this Wales series. We've looked so good in super rugby, it's only Wales etc. 
But has anyone seriously run numbers on who's missing since we last played? I count 14 of the 33 guys who won us the RWC are missing. That's more than 40% of the last squad. The big six retired, Vito, Slade and b franks off, SBW and messam playing sevens, then NMS, TKB and pauliasi manu all got injured. Add in several others also not available - laulala, thrush, broadhurst, piutau, plus fringe names like buckman, ranger, tom Taylor. There's probably a strong 23 man team in there. The numbers are quite staggering. We lost a decent chunk of players after 2007, but nowhere near the current losses, and suffered through an average 2008 and a poor 2009 after injuries hit. 
Just sayin'.
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Who have we lost from the 2015 RWC?
 
McCaw - to be replaced by Cane who has been in the team for four years.
Ma'a Nonu - probably replaced by Ngatai
Conrad Smith - probably replaced by Fekitoa who has been around the team for a few seasons
NMS - probably replaced by Naholo. NMS is definitely our incumbent right winger but pre world cup it looked like Naholo would take that position.
Dan Carter - replaced by Cruden.
Mealamu - only a bench player in 2015.
Ben Franks - only a bench player in 2015
Messam - hardly sighted at the World Cup.
SBW - a good impact player to have on the bench.
TkB - A bit of a blow because he offers something different.
 
I think we are only losing 4 players from our best starting line up in 2015. Cruden had probably already overtaken Carter before being injured. Midfield, replacement half back and replacement hookers are all positions with a question mark over them. I think in most positions we have ready made replacements

ACT Crusader

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Provincial Stalwart" data-cid="580801" data-time="1463654967">So, everyone's confidence levels are pretty high for this Wales series. We've looked so good in super rugby, it's only Wales etc. 
But has anyone seriously run numbers on who's missing since we last played? I count 14 of the 33 guys who won us the RWC are missing. That's more than 40% of the last squad. The big six retired, Vito, Slade and b franks off, SBW and messam playing sevens, then NMS, TKB and pauliasi manu all got injured. Add in several others also not available - laulala, thrush, broadhurst, piutau, plus fringe names like buckman, ranger, tom Taylor. There's probably a strong 23 man team in there. The numbers are quite staggering. We lost a decent chunk of players after 2007, but nowhere near the current losses, and suffered through an average 2008 and a poor 2009 after injuries hit. 
Just sayin'.</blockquote>
 
By the sounds of it PS I'm surprised we'll even be able to put a team out..... 
And yet when I pick my 23 plus squaddies, we have plenty of test experience to boot and room for some new faces just as has been the case every year under Hansen. The only genuine question marks for me are the 5th and 6th prop.

Moody
Coles
Franks
Retallick
Whitelock
Luatua
Cane
Read
A. Smith
Cruden
J. Savea
Crotty
Fekitoa
Naholo
B. Smith
Taylor
Crockett
Faumauina
Tuipoluto
Todd
Perenara
Barrett
Moala 
Take your pick of the following for the rest 
Harris, Romano, Kaino, A. Savea, Kerr-Barlow, Webber, Sopoaga, Ngatai, Dagg, McKenzie

Wreck Diver

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="580814" data-time="1463660304">
<div>
 
Messam - hardly sighted at the World Cup.
 
</div>
</blockquote>
He carried the water beautifully.

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="580814" data-time="1463660304">
<div>I think we are only losing 4 players from our best starting line up in 2015. Cruden had probably already overtaken Carter before being injured. Midfield, replacement half back and replacement hookers are all positions with a question mark over them. I think in most positions we have ready made replacements</div>
</blockquote>
 
The bench is eroded noticeably though and that was an absolute weapon for us the past two seasons. Many tests were won (or won much easier and sooner than they otherwise would have been) because of the blitzkrieg from the bench.
 
I'm confident that we can restock that though, much easier to blood high impact guys who may have a few holes in their game off the bench than it is to stumble on guys capable of starting.
 
We are well positioned, but I think we will miss that bench.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">The bench is eroded noticeably though
 
</blockquote>
 
I think the bench looks potentially better than ever personally.
 
Codie Taylor is doing ridiculous things.
Crockett and Faumuina are still there.
Tuipulotu is back after being unavailable last year. 
Savea probably offers more from the bench than Cane did.
Perenara isn't in top form but TKB should be fit for the RC.
Barrett is still there.
Plenty of guys available as utility backs.
 
Who have we lost, Kev's experience? SBW?

kiwiinmelb

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="580821" data-time="1463678287">
<div>
I think the bench looks potentially better than ever personally.
 
Codie Taylor is doing ridiculous things.
Crockett and Faumuina are still there.
Tuipulotu is back after being unavailable last year. 
Savea probably offers more from the bench than Cane did.
Perenara isn't in top form but TKB should be fit for the RC.
Barrett is still there.
Plenty of guys available as utility backs.
 
Who have we lost, Kev's experience? SBW?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
 I think you could add Ngatai or Fekitoa to that bench as well

rotated

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Don Frye" data-cid="580821" data-time="1463678287">
<div>
I think the bench looks potentially better than ever personally.
 
Codie Taylor is doing ridiculous things.
Crockett and Faumuina are still there.
Tuipulotu is back after being unavailable last year. 
Savea probably offers more from the bench than Cane did.
Perenara isn't in top form but TKB should be fit for the RC.
Barrett is still there.
Plenty of guys available as utility backs.
 
Who have we lost, Kev's experience? SBW?
</div>
</blockquote>
 
For the Wales tests at hand obviously TKB and SBW are the big two in the loose - assuming Barrett remains on the bench.
 
Hooker is always the wildcard off the bench. It remains to be seen Taylor can bring his game off the bench and slot into the scrum and lineout without missing a beat.
 
For the most part the Cane/Mealamu substitutions were purely fatigue related - they weren't about bringing in game breakers and augmenting the game plan like SBW/Barrett. They would just slot in and things would keep turning over. So the upside of Taylor/Savea in terms of game breaking ability is less exciting to me than the concern that they could throw the rhythm off - coming from the bench.
 
It's a different look that's all. Our outlook is very bright as I said, and it's a great opportunity to blood some guys - but I think for these Wales tests the bench won't be the same predictable weapon it was last year.

booboo

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="ACT Crusader" data-cid="580815" data-time="1463665511">
By the sounds of it PS I'm surprised we'll even be able to put a team out..... 
And yet when I pick my 23 plus squaddies, we have plenty of test experience to boot and room for some new faces just as has been the case every year under Hansen. The only genuine question marks for me are the 5th and 6th prop.

Moody
Coles
Franks
Retallick
Whitelock
Luatua
Cane
Read
A. Smith
Cruden
J. Savea
Crotty
Fekitoa
Naholo
B. Smith
Taylor
Crockett
Faumauina
Tuipoluto
Todd
Perenara
Barrett
Moala 
Take your pick of the following for the rest 
Harris, Romano, Kaino, A. Savea, Kerr-Barlow, Webber, Sopoaga, Ngatai, Dagg, McKenzie</blockquote>
Good team. That's pretty much my preferred XV. I'd do a few different things on the bench but that's just splitting hairs. 
To go back to Stalwart's point the only place I'm concerned about the loss of players is 12 and 13. It's not that we don't have good players there it's more lack of experience and experience together. In previous yearswe had the luxury of having at least one of Nonu or Smith, and SBDub. Still Fekitoa/Crotty/Ngatai is pretty handy. 
That's why we're not as concerned about the player turnover as we could be.

taniwharugby

Yep i think Hansen has done a great job integrated players to ensure as smoother transition as possible when the inevitable retirements came.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote">Messam - hardly sighted at the World Cup.
 
</blockquote>
TBF, guys like him (and Vito) are more about the depth than the one of loss of a single player. We know that if he had to Messam could slip and do the job in test matches, now we've got a few relatively untried guys who make take some time to find their feet at international level - like Messam did.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="hydro11" data-cid="580814" data-time="1463660304">
<div>
Who have we lost from the 2015 RWC?
 
McCaw - to be replaced by Cane who has been in the team for four years.
Ma'a Nonu - probably replaced by Ngatai
Conrad Smith - probably replaced by Fekitoa who has been around the team for a few seasons
NMS - probably replaced by Naholo. NMS is definitely our incumbent right winger but pre world cup it looked like Naholo would take that position.
Dan Carter - replaced by Cruden.
Mealamu - only a bench player in 2015.
Ben Franks - only a bench player in 2015
Messam - hardly sighted at the World Cup.
SBW - a good impact player to have on the bench.
TkB - A bit of a blow because he offers something different.
 
I think we are only losing 4 players from our best starting line up in 2015. Cruden had probably already overtaken Carter before being injured. Midfield, replacement half back and replacement hookers are all positions with a question mark over them. I think in most positions we have ready made replacements
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Those are the three to be most concerned about IMHO. At this stage all their replacements aren't as good as who they're replacing and maybe never will be.

No Quarter

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="Nepia" data-cid="580839" data-time="1463696043">
<div>
TBF, guys like him (and Vito) are more about the depth than the one of loss of a single player. We know that if he had to Messam could slip and do the job in test matches, now we've got a few relatively untried guys who make take some time to find their feet at international level - like Messam did.
</div>
</blockquote>
Yep, our top 23 is undoubtedly very strong but injuries to BBBR, Whitelock, Read etc and we have reletively untested starters lining up.

Frye

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="rotated" data-cid="580823" data-time="1463683014">
For the Wales tests at hand obviously TKB and SBW are the big two in the loose - assuming Barrett remains on the bench. 
Hooker is always the wildcard off the bench. It remains to be seen Taylor can bring his game off the bench and slot into the scrum and lineout without missing a beat. 
For the most part the Cane/Mealamu substitutions were purely fatigue related - they weren't about bringing in game breakers and augmenting the game plan like SBW/Barrett. They would just slot in and things would keep turning over. So the upside of Taylor/Savea in terms of game breaking ability is less exciting to me than the concern that they could throw the rhythm off - coming from the bench. 
It's a different look that's all. Our outlook is very bright as I said, and it's a great opportunity to blood some guys - but I think for these Wales tests the bench won't be the same predictable weapon it was last year.</blockquote>
 
I see your point but there is really no reason a guy like Taylor can't come off the bench, put his darts on the mark, scrum well AND add something else.

Immenso Rapido

I'm pretty confident, actually. 
Wind back to 1998. A decimated England let us live a few more weeks of obliviousness before the TriNations resulted in a complete dudding. The TriNations could be brutal like that if the other teams are strong. 
In 1998 both SA and Aus were strong and on the rise. 
Wind forward to 2016, I see SA and Aus as being as similarly hollowed out as NZ (although that may make SA stronger as they carried a lot of old dead weight). 
I don't see this rebuilding phase getting ugly as no one is in a position to put the foot on our throat. 
However I do think the next 2 years or so will be fascinating.

mariner4life

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="No Quarter" data-cid="580841" data-time="1463696521">
<div>
Yep, our top 23 is undoubtedly very strong but injuries to BBBR, Whitelock, Read etc and we have reletively untested starters lining up.
</div>
</blockquote>
that's actually not any different to last year. If one of our locks went down we had Romano. If Read went down we had Vito, who was never a great test player anyway. This year if one of our locks goes down we have Tuipolotu/Romano. If Read goes down probably Luatua, who hasn't found his feet at test level yet.
 
 
McCaw and Nonu are our best ever players in their respective jerseys, we are definitely losing something with them not being there. However the guys coming in are either already handy test players, or have great potential/form.
 
Conrad Smith is one of our best centres ever, and his organising role and ability to consistently make the right decision because of his experience will be harder to replace. But the options also bring other skills Conrad never had.
 
Dan Carter is our best 10 ever, but he was at the level so rarely over the past 4 years that anyone coming in isn't filling such massive shoes. All options have test runs on the board.
 
Woody had fallen away, and i think the team improved when he got injured (i feel dirty just saying that). Kev found a second lease on life as an experience closer, but his core skills are easily replaced. 
 
 
I'm more "worried" about NMS missing (he was probably due 2nd year blues anyway) and Savea not looking in any way effective. We are a little bare behind them, and if Naholo goes down again, we might be a little fucked.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="580864" data-time="1463698680">
<div>
that's actually not any different to last year. If one of our locks went down we had Romano. If Read went down we had Vito, who was never a great test player anyway. This year if one of our locks goes down we have Tuipolotu/Romano. If Read goes down probably Luatua, who hasn't found his feet at test level yet.
 
 
McCaw and Nonu are our best ever players in their respective jerseys, we are definitely losing something with them not being there. However the guys coming in are either already handy test players, or have great potential/form.
 
Conrad Smith is one of our best centres ever, and his organising role and ability to consistently make the right decision because of his experience will be harder to replace. But the options also bring other skills Conrad never had.
 
Dan Carter is our best 10 ever, but he was at the level so rarely over the past 4 years that anyone coming in isn't filling such massive shoes. All options have test runs on the board.
 
Woody had fallen away, and i think the team improved when he got injured (i feel dirty just saying that). Kev found a second lease on life as an experience closer, but his core skills are easily replaced. 
 
 
I'm more "worried" about NMS missing (he was probably due 2nd year blues anyway) and Savea not looking in any way effective. We are a little bare behind them, and if Naholo goes down again, we might be a little fucked. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
That's probably true but Nonu still isn't on the same level as McCaw because NZ have produced far more outstanding 7s than 12s.

mariner4life

which adds entirely nothing to the point. cheers.

Nepia

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="580864" data-time="1463698680">
<div>
that's actually not any different to last year. If one of our locks went down we had Romano. If Read went down we had Vito, who was never a great test player anyway. This year if one of our locks goes down we have Tuipolotu/Romano. If Read goes down probably Luatua, who hasn't found his feet at test level yet.
 
 
McCaw and Nonu are our best ever players in their respective jerseys, we are definitely losing something with them not being there. However the guys coming in are either already handy test players, or have great potential/form.
 
Conrad Smith is one of our best centres ever, and his organising role and ability to consistently make the right decision because of his experience will be harder to replace. But the options also bring other skills Conrad never had.
 
Dan Carter is our best 10 ever, but he was at the level so rarely over the past 4 years that anyone coming in isn't filling such massive shoes. All options have test runs on the board.
 
Woody had fallen away, and i think the team improved when he got injured (i feel dirty just saying that). Kev found a second lease on life as an experience closer, but his core skills are easily replaced. 
 
 
I'm more "worried" about NMS missing (he was probably due 2nd year blues anyway) and Savea not looking in any way effective. We are a little bare behind them, and if Naholo goes down again, we might be a little fucked. 
</div>
</blockquote>
I'm less worried about wing TBH, we tend to pull them out of the bag when needed. I think a guy like James Lowe would iron out his kinks in an AB environment and do a bloody good job if the risk was taken on him. Hell, in 2011 we chucked out reserve centre on to one wing and the other guy took half his professional career to finally get the AB call up.
 
Loosehead was a bit like 10 for is in 2011 when an out of sorts Slade got injured, Woody got injured and then Collapser got injured and we probably got the best loosehead in the team by default.

MN5

<blockquote class="ipsBlockquote" data-author="mariner4life" data-cid="580876" data-time="1463699630">
<div>
which adds entirely nothing to the point. cheers. 
</div>
</blockquote>
 
Standard for me really

The Silver Fern

All Blacks vs Wales