6N - Scotland v France
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@NTA said in 6N - Scotland v France:
Scotland should have won that game twice over in the first half but didn't take advantage of a France looking very Old French without Dupont and Ntamack.
Yeah the last decision is going to be talked about, but don't put it in the ref's hands.
Christ I hate that line of thinking. The old “the ref didn’t cost us, we should have have put it away earlier”. It makes no sense. They did what they had to do to be in a position to win the game and the TMO screwed them. Both teams made mistakes prior to then, it’s called “sport”
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@voodoo said in 6N - Scotland v France:
@NTA said in 6N - Scotland v France:
Scotland should have won that game twice over in the first half but didn't take advantage of a France looking very Old French without Dupont and Ntamack.
Yeah the last decision is going to be talked about, but don't put it in the ref's hands.
Christ I hate that line of thinking. The old “the ref didn’t cost us, we should have have put it away earlier”. It makes no sense. They did what they had to do to be in a position to win the game and the TMO screwed them. Both teams made mistakes prior to then, it’s called “sport”*
Agree on this but also have the view that with the interminable pick and go close to the line against a set defence, the chances of either being held up or putting yourself at the mercy of officiating are pretty high.
But again, that’s sport.
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@voodoo said in 6N - Scotland v France:
@NTA said in 6N - Scotland v France:
Scotland should have won that game twice over in the first half but didn't take advantage of a France looking very Old French without Dupont and Ntamack.
Yeah the last decision is going to be talked about, but don't put it in the ref's hands.
Christ I hate that line of thinking. The old “the ref didn’t cost us, we should have have put it away earlier”. It makes no sense. They did what they had to do to be in a position to win the game and the TMO screwed them. Both teams made mistakes prior to then, it’s called “sport”
Yeah, if that’s the case teams would work extra hard to get that extra try/penalty JUST IN CASE the ref does something wrong later on.
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@voodoo said in 6N - Scotland v France:
They did what they had to do to be in a position to win the game and didn't
FIFY
We can't collectively complain about how the TMO works and then also ignore the fact that Berry made the call in the first place.
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@NTA said in 6N - Scotland v France:
@voodoo said in 6N - Scotland v France:
They did what they had to do to be in a position to win the game and didn't
FIFY
We can't collectively complain about how the TMO works and then also ignore the fact that Berry made the call in the first place.
Berry got it wrong and the TMO should have corrected the error.
I understand how the rules work and what the TMO actually had to do.
But:
a. There was conclusive evidence to overturn the decision, the TMO saw it, then changed his mind to dismiss it.
b. Its fucking stupid that we find ourselves in this spot where the TMO turns himself inside out to see something possibly wrong - and in this case it wasn't even a something, it was a "maybe there could possibly be a something?"Just daft.
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I don't have a problem with Berry's original take. He saw it held up and said so, but even then asked for the TMO to check the other angles. His refereeing (which I've been critical of in the pas) isn't the issue here, it's the blind fluffybunny who is the TMO. I immediately saw exactly the same thing as the below and if that's not grounded, I don't wtf is.
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Shocking decision IMO, if the ball is held up only by a players foot, and it then slips off the foot, what is there left to hold the ball up above the ground?? Magic?
The TMO and the ref were about to award it then the TMO changed his mind - that's an issue of temperament.
When your entire review process is on display for the world to see you need to be decisive based off the evidence in front of you, not a fuddy-duddy changing your mind because you can't make the big call.
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@Windows97 this is exactly how I felt when the Canes season ended in Canberra last year. Ardie was adamant he grounded it but the wording of the ref made it almost impossible to give.
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Scotland Rugby write to World Rugby asking for admission of officials' error.
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I was just about to post that article. Whilst I have sympathy for the Scots in regard to the incident I cannot see how their statement is going to achieve anything or help the wider issue of referee integrity (and therefore potential for abuse).
What happened to suck it up and do better next time?
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@Catogrande It undermines their coach, Gregor Townsend, who basically said just that after the game.
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Yes, but that is the % play to get the ball over the line. If they tried to go wider, that close to the line it could easily have been lost or shut down by a defender.
I am pretty sure that defending sides will have one eye on throwing their bodies around the player who is over the line, to obstruct any views for the TMO.
The issue here is Scotland grounded the ball, there was one angle that showed it was, and the TMO even said it was grounded.
Then he seemingly lost his nerve.
I do hate when people say things like ‘oh they should have won it before then so it’s their own fault’
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For sure the % play but not without risk which often gets ramped up the longer it goes on.
FWIW I felt it was a try but can understand why it wasn’t given due to the refs initial communication.
Agree on the last point though, it’s never as if a side decides to not score for 79 minutes because they know they’re going to score at the 80th.
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@sparky said in 6N - Scotland v France:
Scotland Rugby write to World Rugby asking for admission of officials' error.
Still waiting for the far more obvious Lions deal apology, so they might wait a while
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@DaGrubster said in 6N - Scotland v France:
Yes, but that is the % play to get the ball over the line. If they tried to go wider, that close to the line it could easily have been lost or shut down by a defender.
I am pretty sure that defending sides will have one eye on throwing their bodies around the player who is over the line, to obstruct any views for the TMO.
The issue here is Scotland grounded the ball, there was one angle that showed it was, and the TMO even said it was grounded.
Then he seemingly lost his nerve.
I do hate when people say things like ‘oh they should have won it before then so it’s their own fault’
Yeah that’s absolute bullshit as @voodoo mentioned before.
“Yeah, well done for eking out that win by a couple of points but you really should have got that extra try earlier just in case the TMO decides to screw things up for you….”
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@antipodean said in 6N - Scotland v France:
I don't have a problem with Berry's original take. He saw it held up and said so, but even then asked for the TMO to check the other angles. His refereeing (which I've been critical of in the pas) isn't the issue here, it's the blind fluffybunny who is the TMO. I immediately saw exactly the same thing as the below and if that's not grounded, I don't wtf is.
That doesn't show whether the player is still touching the ball, that looks to be just after the ball bobbled out.
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Yeah, open to doubt. Was watching Nigel Owens Whistlewatch and his view was that the TMO made the right call given the referee’s wording.
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@Catogrande said in 6N - Scotland v France:
Yeah, open to doubt. Was watching Nigel Owens Whistlewatch and his view was that the TMO made the right call given the referee’s wording.
It seems different than a few years ago.
Berry gave his on field call and the TMO needs to find sufficient evidence to over turn the on field call. Ok, fine so far
Berry see's the replays and is ready to say it's a try. The TMO stops him and continues his process
A few years ago the TMO wouldn't have stopped the ref. The ref was still the overall judge. Plenty of times you would've seen Nigel Owens/Barnes/etc take control of the process from the TMO and make his call
I think they need to clarify if the ref is still in charge at that point or if after the question is asked all power is with the TMO.
