All Blacks 2024
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Sotutu 8, Savea 7 is an option
I'm a big fan of picking your best players in their best position. Ardie is arguably the best 8 in the world right now and he hasn't played 7 for yonks. Covering 7 in an emergency or when replacements come on is fine, but leave his prime position at 8 where he's best.
He started out as a 7 and I always thought 8 wasn't his best position. There's been a paucity of backup reserve talent at 8 for years in the ABs. It makes sense to have a taller lineout too. Why not give it a trial for 2 or 3 matches at least as a sub.
We have that luxury now, I guess.
Previous management were loyal to a fault and didn't utilize up n coming talent enough. Not using Roigard or DMac more at the WC was just wrong.
Situation was different and the strategy was to focus on developing known quantities like Frizzell, Mo'unga & Akira. Worked for Frizzell and Mo'unga and the loyalty paid off at RWC. There's now an opportunity to build on that loyalty and develop new players
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Top four back rowers are Savea, Paps, Finau and Sotutu.
God knows where Sam Cane is at.
Sititi, Iose, Lakai and Segner all look to have big potential for the future.
Blackadder, Jacobson and Akira Ioane have been in the squad before and have their plaudits.
Billy Harmon is another quality player.
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@Canes4life said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@sparky are we going to judge him on one cameo off the bench or all the other mins he’s played as a starter where he’s been very good? Remember he’s been very good at 7 this year and came on as an 8 yesterday, a position he hasn’t played in a while.
Fairly odd that out of anyone you could have highlighted on this thread this week you picked a guy that had a minor cameo off the bench in a game where the rest of the team were off. It’s like you were waiting for him to have an off day or something?
Kirifi is the one that should be in the spotlight, he was given an opportunity to start against the Brumbies and was poor. Hopefully Lakai returns to 7 against the Tahs because the balance with him, Shields and Iose is so much better.
Lakai replaced Iosi (who didn't have his best game) and then the team did much better (I was pleased to see this change). I didn't see him miss 2 tackles either. I would need to see first to see what sort of misses. As his defense is usually good.
But agree with your point on Kirifi. He was off form. In fact, the entire starting back row, a Canes strength usually, didn't set the world on fire this week. Iose, who some have rated as AB quality, had a quiet game. Unsure whether he was replaced or went off injured though. His recent ankle injury might still not be 100%
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Going to be a good year, provided no nukes are launched.
Only downer is SL feels like alimony -
@Tim said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
A bunch of NZ commentators and journalists have proposed AB squads recently. IIRC, none had Finau in there
Paul Cully's loose forwards were Savea, Blackadder and Finau.
We need to make a distinction on whether these journalist selections are who they expect the AB selectors to choose, or their own choices.
With Robertson in charge of the loose forward selections I have no idea who he favours, but I expect some unpopular selections/omissions.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
With Robertson in charge of the loose forward selections I have no idea who he favours, but I expect some unpopular selections/omissions.
been a while since we had real selection controversy! I think Foster just wore us down with shitty loyalist picks. Going to be tasty - can't wait to see how Robertson and his team pick. I'm optimistic at the moment!
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Paul Cully's loose forwards were Savea, Blackadder and Finau.
I understand the first and last, but what has Blackadder done to deserve this level of lobbying?
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Blackadder's game looks well suited to the bench at test level. I don't mean that as an insult either, not all players are suited to that role, but he is a high energy player that would be a nightmare to play against fresh in the final 20 minutes. When he has started against the big sides he has looked busy but less effective. Getting Akira or Finau to go hard for 60 and then bringing him on would be a good balance.
Man we have some talent in the loosies again though, great to see.
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Razor is a big Fan of High work rates in his Loose Forwards that will be a key to who he picks, that is why he was a fan of Lilo-Willie at the Crusaders and went after his signature.
Any LFs who cruise in and out of games I think will not get selected.You can work out who they maybe.
High energy players with a big work rate will be what he is after. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Worked for Frizzell and Mo'unga and the loyalty paid off at RWC.
No it fucking didn't. The flake returned to his flake ways and we all lost money.
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@Chris as I see it atm, if we are selecting 7 loose forwards I'd hope Razor's loose forward mix will look something like the below. I've given each player a percentage of what I think their chances of being selected are right now, assuming Razor will pick a few Crusaders players even though they've been mostly ordinary all year.
Certainties
- Ardie Savea - coming back from Japan. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Samipeni Finau - his physical attributes will be hard to ignore - Chances of being selected - 100%
- Hoskins Sotutu - has really upped his work-rate this year, he's too hard to ignore. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Dalton Papali'i - his form has been great this year. Chances of being selected - 100%
- Ethan Blackadder - he's gods gift and one of Blackadder's favourite players. Chances of being selected - 100%
In the frame
- Peter Lakai - has been one of the strongest carriers in Super Rugby and has the physical attributes to be a superb international loose forward, may be too early for him though. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Christian Lio-Willie - had a great game last week but he needs to show that against better teams. High work-rate and that's what Razor likes. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Brayden Iose - has been dynamite this year but hit a road block last week against the Brums. He offers so much x-factor off the back of the scrum and could be a weapon coming off the bench as an impact player. Chances of being selected - 60%
- Luke Jacobsen - was completely outplayed a couple weeks ago against the Canes but has very strong leadership skills. Has opportunity to play his way into the mixer with a few more strong performances to finish out the Super season. Chances of being selected - 50%
- Billy Harmon - was on my AB radar at the beginning of the season but the Highlanders form has probably impacted his form somewhat. Still a guy I'd pick for the ABs. I'd have him over Cane. Chances of being selected - 40%
- Cullen Grace - has plenty of support from inside the Crusaders so wouldn't be surprised if he was selected, I just don't see it though. He simply hasn't been good enough IMO. Far too inconsistent. Chances of being selected - 30%
- Brad Shields - he's been awesome for the Canes and he's probably the other physical 6 that can match Finau. Age will be against him here though. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Du Plessis Kirifi - had a chance to stake a claim against the Brumbies but didn't perform to the standard expected. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Devan Flanders - has all the attributes for international rugby but probably lacks a little bit of physicality to stake a claim for an AB just yet. If he can mature and become more physical he could be a mainstay in the ABs by the World Cup. Chances of being selected - 20%
- Hugh Renton - started off the season in great nick and was probably the best Highlanders player before getting injured. Needs to show that he can play for a lengthy period without breaking down. Chances of being selected - 10%
- Wallace Sititi - 100% a player of the future but probably a little too young for me. Chances of being selected - 10%
Dead and buried.
- Sam Cane - the All Blacks need to move on from Cane IMO, he no longer warrants automatic selection for me. Chances of being selected - 10%
- Akira Ioane - another player that's far too inconsistent. Drifts in and out of games far too often and won't be a guy that Robertson will even think about TBH. His inability to perform in big games previously will haunt him. Chances of being selected - 10%
The 7 players that I think will be picked by for the squad against England.
- Ardie Savea (Hurricanes)
- Samipeni Finau (Chiefs)
- Hoskins Sotutu (Blues)
- Dalton Papali'i (Crusaders)
- Ethan Blackadder (Crusaders)
- Christian Lio-Willie (Crusaders) - gets in over Brayden Iose because Razor has worked with him before.
- Peter Lakai (Hurricanes)
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Sotutu 8, Savea 7 is an option
I'm a big fan of picking your best players in their best position. Ardie is arguably the best 8 in the world right now and he hasn't played 7 for yonks. Covering 7 in an emergency or when replacements come on is fine, but leave his prime position at 8 where he's best.
In Japan he has been playing most of his games at 7.
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I agree with a lot of those selections and thoughts on most of the players.
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In addition to the above, the 7 loosies that I think will be selected for the All Blacks XV are:
- Brayden Iose (Hurricanes)
- Billy Harmon (Highlanders)
- Devan Flanders (Hurricanes)
- Brad Shields (Hurricanes)
- Luke Jacobsen (Chiefs)
- Cullen Grace (Crusaders)
- Du Plessis Kirifi (Hurricanes)
This shows we have great depth in NZ atm.
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just so i am clear, it is your contention that, of the 13 best loose forwards in the country (plus one overseas), 5 of them are currently at the Hurricanes, 2 of them are at the Blues, 2 of them are at the Chiefs, 3 of them are at the Crusaders, and 1 is at the Highlanders?
And you are convinced that the coaches will also see what you see?
Just so i am clear
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@mariner4life yes, that's how I see it right now based on the form of players atm. I saw it quite differently at the start of the season and I will probably see it differently towards the end of the season as players get put under pressure come playoff time. If you see my initial post there are now 15 players, I've included Renton and Sititi aswell.
Just to be clear on the above, it's essentially a list of players I think Razor should go for, not necessarily what he will actually pick. For example someone like Grace who I don't think warrants selection might actually have a very high chance based on what Razor's said about him previously.
What this does show is that there is plenty of depth in our loose forward stocks atm, definitely not an area we should be worried about.
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My main concern is our lack of depth at 10. Getting BB back now appears to be a masterstroke by razor as the vast, echoing expanse from DMac to the next best cab off the ranks is now reaching grand canyon proportions.
No-one has really put their hand up this year which is dissapointing.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Worked for Frizzell and Mo'unga and the loyalty paid off at RWC.
No it fucking didn't. The flake returned to his flake ways and we all lost money.
Yeah, one OKish game in his entire AB career and then fucked off overseas. That coupled with his assault charges makes him one of the worst investments any AB coach has made in a player.
