All Blacks 2024
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My take on ABs players' stocks after TRC 2024:
Improved huge amounts:
Tupou Vai'i
Caleb Clarke
Wallace SititiImproved a bit:
Cortez Ratima
Codie Taylor
Tyrel Lomax
Pasilio Tosi
Tamaiti Williams
Sam DarryNo change:
George Bell
George Bower
Fletcher Newell
Patrick Tuipulotu
Josh Lord
Ethan Blackadder
Luke Jacobson
Dalton Papali'i
Noah Hotham
Beauden Barrett
Damian McKenzie
Harry Plummer
Jordie Barrett
David Havili
Rieko Ioane
Anton Lienert-Brown
Billy Proctor
Will Jordan
Ruben Love
Stephen PerofetaDecreased:
Ethan de Groot
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Scott Barrett
Sam Cane
Ardie Savea
Sevu Reece
Mark Tele'aDown the shitter:
Asafo Aumua
Samipeni Finau
TJ PerenaraThank you for investing two minutes of your life to get angry at my opinion
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Stag said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Dan54 because that’s his best position, 6 is Blackadder’s best position and he has been a stellar performer there as well, and 7 is Ardies best position.
I didn’t realise the ABs played a bunch of tests that I missed this season
Hey come on, he's played a grand total of 14 tests since his debut in 2021,half of those against tier 2 nations. I wouldn't have him there and we've gone on and on about it on here, but it wouldn't surprise me if he slots in at 7 for the 1 test that he's fit for a year. Razor loves him. I'd have Papali'i for the mean time, not because I'm his biggest fan, but I feel like he's reliable enough as a 7 without being spectacular.
Savea ain't getting moved from 8, when was the last time he actually played there? 2018? Yet people still keep going on about how he should be there, and yeah Sititi is undroppable these days.
What I think they go with.
- Sititi
- Blackadder
- Savea
Jacobsen
What I'd go with (It won't happen)
- Sititi
- Papali'i
- Savea
.
Sotutu
Clear Blues bias I could be accused for, but it would be nice to have an extra ball carrier off the bench and I feel like Sotutu could really make an impact there if given the opportunity. Papali'i would be my 7 for now, as I said earlier, he's reliable enough there. I would like to see Peter Lakai introduced at some stage, I think he could mke a real case for that 7 jersey going forward.
I’d quite like to see a game with Paps at 7, Suafoa at 6 and WS at 8.
Give it about 4 months or so...
Edit - I misread your initials, thought the last was HS 😄
@MN5 I think most of the shade at Frizzell was due to his off field activities.
Off field was part of it, but the fact he never really stood out was the issue IMO.
He played a good game in SA (was that 2022?) and the one at Mt Smart. Fairly low percentage.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks 2024:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@LatsToTheMax said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Horatio said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
This is a classic Bledisloe fluffer match for the ABs. An awful, awful Wallabies side to give them confidence they aren't on the wrong trajectory ahead of an EOYT.
A real team would have punished them for some of the silly mistakes they made out there.
It's the same Wallabies side that didn't entirely get humped by the Springboks, and won away against Argentina. For 120 minutes we owned the Springboks. It may have just been the game they needed to answer some questions.
It's the same Wallabies side that's ranked 10th in the world. The one we came close to losing to 2 weeks ago after leading 28-7 when we went to shit in the second half
In a dead rubber with nothing to lose this was the perfect game to try new players. Instead Robertson went safety-first with players past their best, learned little and, as far as questions are concerned, answered little
Some improvement in focus overall in this game (not hard considering the nadir of 2 weeks ago) but still nowhere near as good as we were this time last year.
So a 20 point win is not an improvement? Did we go to shit? Did we score points in the last quarter? Did we blank in the second half?
As I said, there was some improvement in focus, but it's bonkers to think not going to pieces and actually scoring points in the last quarter against the 10th based side is some magical, corner-turning improvement. Less than 12 months ago we came within one point of winning the RWC and - to use your words - we owned the Springboks for 75% of the game a few weeks back. Seriously?
Your memory is really short. Fosters side got humped 35-7 and was only a freak run from CamRoi from being blanked. Also lost for the first time in a pool match and almost lost to Australia twice.
Foster's gone. Live with it and focus on this teams direction.
TBF you're making comparisons with the RWC final 12 months ago. Let's face it, that RWC run was a complete anomaly for the Foster era. Give Razor Smith, Whitelock and RM and I dare say we'd be seeing some better results.
Not buying that. We haven't struggled much at 9 since injury put Christie out of the picture and zero drop-off with Scooter and Vaai and, let's face it, Mo'unga was a pretty average AB 10. The players who've dropped away have been the likes of Telea & Savea.
Ultimately I like what Razor is trying to achieve here, but we don't have the cattle to pull it off just yet.
Moving the goalposts there. Anyone who pointed that out last year was told it wasn't a problem, we had the cattle and it was all down to the coaching team.....
That's obviously on him to plan according to the strengths of what's available, but I feel there are plenty of positive signs
Sure, there are some positive signs. Players picked in the last couple of years have stepped up, forced changes from injuries have allowed Ratima and Sititi to shine, there's a bit more fluidity in attack and the D is good. But the mental side of things has gotten worse, much worse.
Completely disagree. RM wasn't the 2nd coming like many here seemed to argue but I think he'd be executing this game plan much better than McKenzie. As impressive as he's sometimes been, Vaai is not Whitelock. No way that's a straight swap.
I'm not moving any goalposts. At least there is something of a plan here. Foster ball was all over the damn place. And I would definitely argue that, for this year at least, Foster had better cattle to work with.
I'm not seeing how the mental side has gotten vastly worse. Unless I missed the amazing mental fortitude of Foster's AB.
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For me there are two types of players.
Those who have proven they can beat a top 5 team this year without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith etc.
And those who haven't.
Beat a top 5 side:
Ethan de Groot
Codie Taylor
Tyrel Lomax
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Samipeni Finau
Dalton Papali'i
Ardie Savea
Finlay Christie
Damian McKenzie
Mark Tele'a
Jordie Barrett
Rieko Ioane
Sevu Reece
Stephen PerofetaAsafo Aumua
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Fletcher Newell
Tupou Vaa'i
Luke Jacobson
Cortez Ratima
Anton Lienert-Brown
Beauden Barrett
TJ PerenaraApart from TJ who is moving on these are all keepers in my book. That team showed grit. There wasn't enough grit in those losses to the Puma's and the Boks.
Then there is promising:
Will Jordan
Caleb Clarke
Wallace Sititi
Pasilio Tosi
Tamaiti Williams
Sam Darry
Josh Lord
Noah Hotham
Billy ProctorThen there is promising but sick note so move on to someone more reliable:
Ethan Blackadder
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.
Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.
We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.
Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.
This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
We concede ground so easily.Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.
Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.
We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.
Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.
This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
We concede ground so easily.Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.
The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.
Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.
We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.
Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.
This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
We concede ground so easily.Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.
The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.
These teams grow an arm and a leg at home.
England at Twickenham is never easy.
Ireland are really well coached, will be on a vendetta after the RWC and it will be a raucous Friday night in Dublin.
France have olympic gold and European Cup winning Dupont.I personally think we lose all 3 games, as if England turn us over I feel the heads will drop for the subsequent 2 games.
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@Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@Jet said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies 2:
I'm not convinced that Razor's game plan will bring the results we want against Ireland, France, and South Africa.
Won’t be beating England at the cabbage patch either.
We don’t have any gain line muscle for the tight games.
Ireland England and France are going to be attritional with a good chance of wet weather.
This team doesn’t have the stomach for it.
We concede ground so easily.Entry into our 22 is almost a guaranteed score or yellow card these days.
The team did ok against the Springboks in South Africa. And against England in NZ in July when the weather was similar.
These teams grow an arm and a leg at home.
England at Twickenham is never easy.
Ireland are really well coached, will be on a vendetta after the RWC and it will be a raucous Friday night in Dublin.
France have olympic gold and European Cup winning Dupont.I personally think we lose all 3 games, as if England turn us over I feel the heads will drop for the subsequent 2 games.
I agree all three teams with difficult and England will be tougher at home than they were in NZ, but to suggest that the All Blacks can't match them for physicality when they basically did exactly that against the Springboks on back to back occasions a few weeks ago seems silly
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
For me there are two types of players.
Those who have proven they can beat a top 5 team this year without Whitelock, Retallick, Smith etc.
And those who haven't.
Beat a top 5 side:
Ethan de Groot
Codie Taylor
Tyrel Lomax
Scott Barrett
Patrick Tuipulotu
Samipeni Finau
Dalton Papali'i
Ardie Savea
Finlay Christie
Damian McKenzie
Mark Tele'a
Jordie Barrett
Rieko Ioane
Sevu Reece
Stephen PerofetaAsafo Aumua
Ofa Tu'ungafasi
Fletcher Newell
Tupou Vaa'i
Luke Jacobson
Cortez Ratima
Anton Lienert-Brown
Beauden Barrett
TJ PerenaraApart from TJ who is moving on these are all keepers in my book. That team showed grit. There wasn't enough grit in those losses to the Puma's and the Boks.
Then there is promising:
Will Jordan
Caleb Clarke
Wallace Sititi
Pasilio Tosi
Tamaiti Williams
Sam Darry
Josh Lord
Noah Hotham
Billy ProctorThen there is promising but sick note so move on to someone more reliable:
Ethan Blackadder
How is Will Jordan only promising?....I do not understand the hate this bloke gets.
He is on course to be the top try scoring Allblack of all time.......while playing in a less than vintage bunch.
Imagine the amount tries he would have scored outside Carter, Nonu and Conrad, and with their pack giving him quick ball.
He has shown in both Bledisloes everything Barrett has not given us for 5 years.
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Jordan is promising as a test fullback. He didn't look great there initially earlier in the year and we haven't beaten a top 5 team with him at fullback.
He's also had some average games against the top teams on the wing. He can be a bit, dear I say it, mercurial.
If he were from Auckland people would call him a flat track bully.
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@brodean spot on.
Offensively great ball in hand.
But kicking, defense and even hard carries are not his visible strengths. That can change - Beauden Barrett was an absolute turnstile on defence when he started - but I am far from frothing over him at 15. He's a bit like Lelia Masaga - massive gifts going forward, but other weaknesses make him a brave choiced
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@brodean spot on.
Offensively great ball in hand.
But kicking, defense and even hard carries are not his visible strengths. That can change - Beauden Barrett was an absolute turnstile on defence when he started - but I am far from frothing over him at 15. He's a bit like Lelia Masaga - massive gifts going forward, but other weaknesses make him a brave choiced
Masaga, Ouch!
He's a fair bit better than him, but Jordan's positioning has been really up and down - sometimes he's absolutely nowhere and at other times he's predicted play perfectly.
I'm not convinced about his kicking game which will get more important, and his ability to look for mismatches will get less likely to be successful against the better NH sides.
With him at FB there isn't an obvious wing/FB to provide help in the backfield - although, I guess we could just throw in Fihaki and problem solved
All in all, I'm still not completely sold on him at 15 - it's not clear to me yet that our best team has him at 15, especially when the other 14s look like absolute dogshit.
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
Rassie is out thinking Razor right now. He realises how short the time is between RWCs, he realises a number of his senior players won't make it to the next cup. He's working hard to run the rule over his pool of young players, trying to work out who can step up, creating depth. Razor does not appear to be feeling the clock ticking, based on his selection policy to date
He has the benefit of not having a general public demand they win every game.
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Has Tele'a actually had a chance to start at 14 this year? I believe he's always been forced to play on the left wing which is not his natural side.
Him and Reece clearly have had issues under the high ball this year.
People have been bagging Tele'a but he has the highest amount of impacts per 80 minutes of any All Black this year. ( tries + try assists + clean breaks + offloads + defenders beaten + turnovers won + dominant tackles )
Apart from Narawa there isn't a 14 who has come close to his form in Super Rugby for years.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Top 10 tackles per 80 minutes
17.24 Luke Jacobson
15.74 Ethan Blackadder
15.57 Asafo Aumua
14.24 Samipeni Finau
13.88 Sam Cane
13.57 Sam Darry
12.85 Dalton Papali'i
12.56 Ardie Savea
12.42 Codie Taylor
12.35 Ofa Tu'ungafasiI think Sititi has been brilliant. What I expected. However he doesn't have a high defensive workrate and he doesn't make big hits so is he actually good 'both sides of the ball'? Is the 'both sides of the ball' just a bunch of weasel words?
People have claimed Finau was poor and he did nothing but he has a high defensive workrate and puts in big hits. Now I'm not going to say that Finau should be there instead of Sititi but I do think Finau actually got a raw deal and as a traditional blindside he has more potential at test level at 6 than Sititi. I personally think Sititi is better suited to 8. I wouldn't mind seeing a trio of:
- Sititi 7. Savea 6. Finau
Sititi isn't a blindside - he's a number 8 but the coaching intellect of the All Blacks insists on playing him out of position. Watching him he looks like a natural 8.
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@brodean said in All Blacks 2024:
I don't get why people think Ardie has been poor?
Because I watch the games, not form my opinions on statistics from the window licking collective called rugbypass.
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You should watch the game more closely then. Even when he's not doing freakish things he still our best loose forward.
His freak game has often been hamstrung this year by picking tight forwards who can't get over the advantage line close in and picking 4 openside sized players for each game in the loose forwards but he still actually does more than any other loose forward.
