All Blacks 2024
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B I could handle one of them on the bench, but why start them, why pick both?
I'm sure they will transition to the young guys - and I'll leave that up to Razor and Co. how fast they do it.
But, the most important thing at the moment is that we keep winning as much as possible (refer 2022). And, it's quite possible that the best combo to deliver consistent wins, right now, is to pick TJ and Finlay for the biggest games - even though from the outside it doesn't look like it.
I don't think it's a coincidence that Fozzie and Schmidt picked Finlay on the bench for the RWC Final and then Vern picked Finlay to start the play-off matches in Super this year.
We sort of go, WTF - but, we've had decades of All Black coaches telling us how important experience is. And decades of observing that it's harder to get dropped from the ABs than to get picked. And I think that happens for good reasons.
Hansen spent most of his tenure telling us how much experience should be valued - and then right at the end he abandoned his own philosophy - panicked and picked a rookie backline in 2019, when he could have picked experience - Beauden, SBW, Crotty, Reiko and Ben Smith (and Sam Cane). I wish someone would ask him about this (but, I digress).
We lost - and we lost in 2007 with a bunch of newbies running on among the inside backs.
To make a very ageist comment - but, fuck it, a girl at the supermarket checkout asked me if I was eligible for a gold card earlier this week
- none of the guys I mentioned earlier are 25 yet. And if I look at the sub-25 kids at my work, you barely trust them to do some filing in alphabetical order. And my bro-in-law, who's a builder, makes similar comments about his apprentices. These guys are just kids. Just because they're good at sport, doesn't mean they're proper grown ups to be entrusted with the keys to the ABs.And they'd be morons (or their agents would) to fuck off overseas at this point without racking up a bunch of test caps and ratcheting up their price.
So, I reckon, use TJ and Christie to lead them and support them this year. Develop Ratima. Bring Roigard in for the EOYT tour. Maybe take Hotham (or one of the others) on the EOYT as an apprentice.
TJ will disappear at the end of the year
If we've got three young guys ready for test rugby at the end of 2025 - with Finlay still in the mix and a couple of others knocking at the door and maybe with a couple of bench caps, that's plenty fast enough for me.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B that's all well and good, but Roigard is a sub-25 kid too and look how he went.
If you're good enough, you're old enough, and the best way to develop Ratima is to play him.Well, we don't know what Razor & Co will do with Roigard - my point is that Fozzie and Schmidt didn't pick him over Christie - and I don't think it's because they're just morons.
They've played Ratima.
I thought they might start Christie vs Fiji, but they picked Ratima and Noah. So they might be on faster track than me - but, I reckon they'll pick TJ and Finlay in the squad for the next set of games.
Razor's won seven Super titles and I haven't won any, so I'm going to trust him until things fall apart.
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@Chris-B Foster refused to pick De Groot and Lomax until injury intervened. Maybe not a moron (just maybe, and only if I'm feeling kind), but definitely a deeply conservative selector.
I'm hoping for better from Razor - in part because Foster won the same number of super titles as you. -
@reprobate I'm hoping for better results from Razor, as well.
But, I've got some sympathy for Fozzie's position compared with us armchair selectors.
He's got to deal with HR management issues. If he drops an established All Black for a newbie, there's a pretty significant message being delivered there - and a very big chunk of cash.
This year, Dave Havili is the best example. Not required. Wouldn't be surprising if he fucked off. But, quite likely he's the fifth best midfielder we have.
Akira Ioane was in a similar boat - somewhere in the picture, but not actually earning the big money - and now he's gone.
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It just feels wrong you comparing DH and Akira. The latter had a bigger boat and he left far more in his wake...
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
It just feels wrong you comparing DH and Akira. The latter had a bigger boat and he left far more in his wake...
To some of you guys, maybe.
Dave played 27 tests, 17 as a starter.
Akira played 21 tests, 15 as a starter.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
It just feels wrong you comparing DH and Akira. The latter had a bigger boat and he left far more in his wake...
To some of you guys, maybe.
Dave played 27 tests, 17 as a starter.
Akira played 21 tests, 15 as a starter.
Akira had a much bigger fan base on the fern it has to be said.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
It just feels wrong you comparing DH and Akira. The latter had a bigger boat and he left far more in his wake...
To some of you guys, maybe.
Dave played 27 tests, 17 as a starter.
Akira played 21 tests, 15 as a starter.
Akira had a much bigger fan base on the fern it has to be said.
But he doesn't play for Ta$man, mind...
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Foster refused to pick De Groot and Lomax until injury intervened.
I believe De Groot was left out of the first test series of the season a few years back because he wasn't fit enough then got fit and brought back in for The Rugby Championship
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
Foster refused to pick De Groot and Lomax until injury intervened.
I believe De Groot was left out of the first test series of the season a few years back because he wasn't fit enough then got fit and brought back in for The Rugby Championship
bit rich when you're selecting the aerobic workhorse that is nepo laulala..
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
It just feels wrong you comparing DH and Akira. The latter had a bigger boat and he left far more in his wake...
To some of you guys, maybe.
Dave played 27 tests, 17 as a starter.
Akira played 21 tests, 15 as a starter.
Akira had a much bigger fan base on the fern it has to be said.
But he doesn't play for Ta$man, mind...
If you want to go there, let's start counting medals.
But, let's be very clear that you started the comparisons!!!
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Would not be surprising, very possible someone may buy his contract out. I suspect he will be working behind the scenes in camp.
Reminder: 70% win record with 56 caps
Less than the historical average.
I expect better.
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@booboo said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Would not be surprising, very possible someone may buy his contract out. I suspect he will be working behind the scenes in camp.
Reminder: 70% win record with 56 caps
Less than the historical average.
I expect better.
If you're looking to find fault.
If you're looking for a positive slant; Richie played in 14 AB losses:
6 when he came off the bench;
3 more when we got red cards as a significant contributing factor
5 when you could point to his play as a starter as a substantive contributing factor.e.g. vs Ireland
Richie played 7 times.
He won both times when he started (both in RWC knock out games) and once when he came off the bench.
He lost four times off the bench.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
One thing that is very apparent e.g. by watching the rotation of Hall and Drummond at the Crusaders - is how much easier it is (and how much better they look) for halfbacks to come off the bench.
Finlay is the glaring exception to this rule
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
@MN5 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2024:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2024:
It just feels wrong you comparing DH and Akira. The latter had a bigger boat and he left far more in his wake...
To some of you guys, maybe.
Dave played 27 tests, 17 as a starter.
Akira played 21 tests, 15 as a starter.
Akira had a much bigger fan base on the fern it has to be said.
But he doesn't play for Ta$man, mind...
If you want to go there, let's start counting medals.
But, let's be very clear that you started the comparisons!!!
Ok let us compare 2024 Super Rugby medals..
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@Machpants Generally are US AB tickets very expensive.
The prices in UK for AB games are very expensive now. 4 tickets viagogo £2500 AB v England category D tickets -
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If the All Black cabinet is meeting Wednesday/Thursday to discuss TRC squad why is the naming not until Sunday?
Is there some important rugby on Friday and Saturday which we don't know about? NPC doesn't start for three weeks?
If the All Blacks selectors decide their team on Tuesday, why do they always name it on a Thursday?
