All Blacks 2024
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Was a time we had multiple 10s, Cruden, Carter, Macalaster, Brett.
A bit of rose coloured glasses going on here.
Carter was either injured or on sabbatical for a fair bit of Cruden's AB career.
Brett whilst a useful Super Rugby 10 never developed the all round game to play test rugby (and never did play test rugby)
McAlister was useful as a depth 10 in his first NZ stint but never really developed into the world class 10 that at times he threatened to.
That's true, we did have Carter, Cruden, Slade and Taylor all around the same time though.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Was a time we had multiple 10s, Cruden, Carter, Macalaster, Brett.
A bit of rose coloured glasses going on here.
Carter was either injured or on sabbatical for a fair bit of Cruden's AB career.
Brett whilst a useful Super Rugby 10 never developed the all round game to play test rugby (and never did play test rugby)
McAlister was useful as a depth 10 in his first NZ stint but never really developed into the world class 10 that at times he threatened to.
That's true, we did have Carter, Cruden, Slade and Taylor all around the same time though.
Well 3 of them were injured in 2011...which was when our true depth was was tested, and found to be awesome 😄
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Was a time we had multiple 10s, Cruden, Carter, Macalaster, Brett.
A bit of rose coloured glasses going on here.
Carter was either injured or on sabbatical for a fair bit of Cruden's AB career.
Brett whilst a useful Super Rugby 10 never developed the all round game to play test rugby (and never did play test rugby)
McAlister was useful as a depth 10 in his first NZ stint but never really developed into the world class 10 that at times he threatened to.
Nick Evans was another who was stuck behind Dan Carter, then he left
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@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Was a time we had multiple 10s, Cruden, Carter, Macalaster, Brett.
A bit of rose coloured glasses going on here.
Carter was either injured or on sabbatical for a fair bit of Cruden's AB career.
Brett whilst a useful Super Rugby 10 never developed the all round game to play test rugby (and never did play test rugby)
McAlister was useful as a depth 10 in his first NZ stint but never really developed into the world class 10 that at times he threatened to.
Nick Evans was another who was stuck behind Dan Carter, then he left
came to the Blues, got wrecked, THEN left
Edit: actually did he come back to the Blues rom overseas? I cna't remember any more!
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Was a time we had multiple 10s, Cruden, Carter, Macalaster, Brett.
A bit of rose coloured glasses going on here.
Carter was either injured or on sabbatical for a fair bit of Cruden's AB career.
Brett whilst a useful Super Rugby 10 never developed the all round game to play test rugby (and never did play test rugby)
McAlister was useful as a depth 10 in his first NZ stint but never really developed into the world class 10 that at times he threatened to.
Nick Evans was another who was stuck behind Dan Carter, then he left
came to the Blues, got wrecked, THEN left
Edit: actually did he come back to the Blues rom overseas? I cna't remember any more!
He came to the Blues before heading overseas. 2008 I believe. He started out at 10 but then had head knock issues and ended looking better at 15 for the Blues that year in the end.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2024:
@canefan said in All Blacks 2024:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2024:
@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Was a time we had multiple 10s, Cruden, Carter, Macalaster, Brett.
A bit of rose coloured glasses going on here.
Carter was either injured or on sabbatical for a fair bit of Cruden's AB career.
Brett whilst a useful Super Rugby 10 never developed the all round game to play test rugby (and never did play test rugby)
McAlister was useful as a depth 10 in his first NZ stint but never really developed into the world class 10 that at times he threatened to.
Nick Evans was another who was stuck behind Dan Carter, then he left
came to the Blues, got wrecked, THEN left
Edit: actually did he come back to the Blues rom overseas? I cna't remember any more!
He came to the Blues before heading overseas. 2008 I believe. He started out at 10 but then had head knock issues and ended looking better at 15 for the Blues that year in the end.
sounds right.
I had just moved to Auckland and remember seeing a string of donkeys at 10, not helped by a dysfunctional organisation.
Dave Holwell was arguably the pick of them. Jimmy Gopperth was ... what he was. Isiah West had flashes. I had flashbacks aka PTSD.
Derailing the thread, but Leon deserves massive credit for being an importnat part of an organisational turnaround.
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@darylmitchell you seem to be arguing with yourself there, I didn't state what I thought Razor would do, just what I think should happen. Jordan not being gift wrapped the 15 jumper already is obviously a triggering subject for you. As good as he is on attack (probably the worlds best in that regard), defensively he's a way behind first Jordie and more recently Beauden who have been wearing 15 in those 4 years. That counts for a lot in a test match, which is why he's well suited to the wing at that level where we can utilise his attacking prowess without exposing his defensive frailties.
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@No-Quarter I don't think there's that much to pick between BB and WJ on defence.
Jordie is better under the high ball and a big hard body who can tackle, but doesn't have the pace of the other two to cover.
McKenzie is better than all of them positionally, and fast, and good under the high ball - but you can't get around being small in some situations no matter how brave you are.
Perofeta I don't know really. Positionally he's not bad, but decision-making I think he gets himself into trouble occasionally. Decent pace, not a bad tackler but certainly not a big hitter. -
If Perenara is off at the end of the year, then IMO the ABs should get Fakatava in the squad now. If the ABs aren't careful they'll fumble the halfback depth situation... Ratima obviously looking the goods, but we can't bank on Roigard coming back the same player - that's a dangerous game (not to say that he won't)
Hotham is still potential, Roigard may not be the same player post injury, Christie is Christie, is Funaki ABs quality? (Personally I think he looks extra-good because he is in the best team coughs in Christe)
Fakatava may not be perfect, but he had a bloody good season in an average Landers side. Would be a shame to see him head offshore out of frustration, because behind a good pack he is a heck of a player.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
If Perenara is off at the end of the year, then IMO the ABs should get Fakatava in the squad now. If the ABs aren't careful they'll fumble the halfback depth situation... Ratima obviously looking the goods, but we can't bank on Roigard coming back the same player - that's a dangerous game (not to say that he won't)
Hotham is still potential, Roigard may not be the same player post injury, Christie is Christie, is Funaki ABs quality? (Personally I think he looks extra-good because he is in the best team coughs in Christe)
Fakatava may not be perfect, but he had a bloody good season in an average Landers side. Would be a shame to see him head offshore out of frustration, because behind a good pack he is a heck of a player.
With Perenara leaving, that might just close the door on TJ. In saying that I think they will treat him like Cane and will select him this year. Razor seems to like TJ, and with Roigard not back yet, he needs to be in there IMO.
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@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
If Perenara is off at the end of the year, then IMO the ABs should get Fakatava in the squad now. If the ABs aren't careful they'll fumble the halfback depth situation... Ratima obviously looking the goods, but we can't bank on Roigard coming back the same player - that's a dangerous game (not to say that he won't)
Hotham is still potential, Roigard may not be the same player post injury, Christie is Christie, is Funaki ABs quality? (Personally I think he looks extra-good because he is in the best team coughs in Christe)
Fakatava may not be perfect, but he had a bloody good season in an average Landers side. Would be a shame to see him head offshore out of frustration, because behind a good pack he is a heck of a player.
I thought Fakatava's season was mixed - and that might be being generous.. Probably the worst of the starting halfbacks by season's end (plus the likes of Funaki, Roigard etc).
I don't think Christie or Perenara are worth persisting with. I'd rather see Funaki/Hotham in there behind Roigard and Ratima. I think Fakatava could potentially get back to the level needed but I think that's most likely come with getting more and more games under his belt post injury, which means a full season for Hawke's Bay without any ABs distractions.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Braydon Ennor named in the Canterbury NPC team, could he be on EOYT?
Only if he has a stand out NPC. I'd rather see someone like Poihipi come in as that 5th centre.
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@SBW1 said in All Blacks 2024:
Braydon Ennor named in the Canterbury NPC team, could he be on EOYT?
You would think Proctor has well and truly jumped him in the pecking order. Unless there’s an injury I can’t see him making it. In saying that, he is a red and black soooo……
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks 2024:
@frugby said in All Blacks 2024:
If Perenara is off at the end of the year, then IMO the ABs should get Fakatava in the squad now. If the ABs aren't careful they'll fumble the halfback depth situation... Ratima obviously looking the goods, but we can't bank on Roigard coming back the same player - that's a dangerous game (not to say that he won't)
Hotham is still potential, Roigard may not be the same player post injury, Christie is Christie, is Funaki ABs quality? (Personally I think he looks extra-good because he is in the best team coughs in Christe)
Fakatava may not be perfect, but he had a bloody good season in an average Landers side. Would be a shame to see him head offshore out of frustration, because behind a good pack he is a heck of a player.
I thought Fakatava's season was mixed - and that might be being generous.. Probably the worst of the starting halfbacks by season's end (plus the likes of Funaki, Roigard etc).
I don't think Christie or Perenara are worth persisting with. I'd rather see Funaki/Hotham in there behind Roigard and Ratima. I think Fakatava could potentially get back to the level needed but I think that's most likely come with getting more and more games under his belt post injury, which means a full season for Hawke's Bay without any ABs distractions.
I like Fakatava, can be really good just needs more game time and to choose his moments. Roigard obviously. Ratima looking good. Hotham pretty good for 21, and Funaki lots of potential too. Pledger the best player in the U20s.
That's actually pretty impressive young depth in one position. Stop picking old fluffybunnies. -
I reckon you guys might find our halfback depth is about as good as the loose forward depth that a couple of months ago was being written about how blessed we are with amazing depth in a new generation of loose forwards.
Roigard has started two tests - vs Namibia and Uruguay + 3 from the bench
Fakatava - two from the bench
Ratima - started vs Fiji +one off the bench
Hotham - one off the bench
Funaki - none - and Stern Vern reverted to Christie as soon as he had him available.One thing that is very apparent e.g. by watching the rotation of Hall and Drummond at the Crusaders - is how much easier it is (and how much better they look) for halfbacks to come off the bench.
There's plenty of time to develop these young guys and bring them through with the training wheels of having them paired with TJ and Christie - firstly coming off the bench, then starting vs weaker opposition and then starting against Tier 1.
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@Chris-B "young" depth, and Ratima outplayed Perenara pretty comprehensively in the Super semi.
I for one wasn't crowing about our loose forward quality. Depth: well yeah, I guess we've got more small-medium sized 6.5s any team could ever want. -
@reprobate Not TJ's finest night - but, the following one wasn't fabulous for Ratima.
If we're in South Africa and one of our young guns is starting and being killed - I reckon we'll be a lot better off with TJ or Christie coming on and having some experience in piloting us home - than throwing another young guy to the lions.
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Fakatava had been around for quite awhile now that it’s easy to forget he is still only 24. Technically hasn’t reached his prime years yet. He had an average season for his standards and I’m sure he’s disappointed but I’m expecting him to be hungry and absolutely dominate in the NPC. I still have faith in the guy to improve and continue to be there or there abouts.
