All Blacks 2024
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On a potential Ardie injury, that’s the benefit of Jacobson as a squaddie - he could do a last minute job pretty well at 8 in that situation.
I would still have Sotutu (and Akira) in my squad, but that’s a different conversation.
I don’t think Cane will get selected. It makes no sense unless he is their no 1 seven, and if that is the case, someone should get dropped. If it is Jacobson, we lose 8 cover, so it should be EB or Sititi (who is great, but is he ready for the situation above? I’m not sure and would like them to develop him more carefully).
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2024:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024:
There are not many options out there that are like DH if they are looking for that type of player, but there is one that stands out - Plummer.
I don't believe Plummer is a chance unless the coaches believe that BB and Perofeta are not options at 1st 5.
I don't believe BB or SP are decent options at 10.
I'd speculate the thinking is that while McKenzie is integral, someone like Plummer doesn't play anything like him and is inexperienced, so BB - despite his severe limitations, is not that much worse as a back-up - so we gamble. -
@gt12 said in All Blacks 2024:
On a potential Ardie injury, that’s the benefit of Jacobson as a squaddie - he could do a last minute job pretty well at 8 in that situation.
I would still have Sotutu (and Akira) in my squad, but that’s a different conversation.
I don’t think Cane will get selected. It makes no sense unless he is their no 1 seven, and if that is the case, someone should get dropped. If it is Jacobson, we lose 8 cover, so it should be EB or Sititi (who is great, but is he ready for the situation above? I’m not sure and would like them to develop him more carefully).
Jacobson is the Havili of the loose trio. Good player, but not going to dominate at test level, good versatility (that we don't need).
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
But where are we thin? Big 6s, and locks. So add 3 of those and see what you can build there.
They didn't name them in the initial 32 (+4 injury cover) for England/Fiji so I can't see them suddenly pivoting for the 36 man TRC squad
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2024:
Adding Jordan is a no brainer. But the rest of the rumours make far less sense.
Why add DH? A known and substandard quality who would only see game time in a calamity. So why not find a spot you think we are a touch thin and add a young fulla to evaluate in training as they learn the systems.
Same thing in the forwards. I get the Sam Cane farewell tour even if i don't really agree with it. But where are we thin? Big 6s, and locks. So add 3 of those and see what you can build there. Alternatively, if Savea busts his achilles on the Monday before Boks away, are you happy with your squad replacements at #8? if not, then get someone else in there.
Padding the squad with known quantities who won't get near the field is a waste of payroll.
Yeah - I don't really see a need for another midfielder right now.
3 halfbacks, 4 midfielders, 4 wings, 2 fullbacks - and maybe 3 first fives. Big question in my mind is whether they see McKenzie, Barrett and Perofeta as their three best first fives - if they don't then now's the time to pick the third guy (probably Plummer).
If they're happy with their first fives then I'd rather see them pick another tall 6 - or maybe even five locks.
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On the Sam Cane farewell tour - it's possible they think he's still our best openside. If that's the case, they should definitely pick him - winning now is the top priority.
If he's not - it's kind of a marginal selection to trundle him towards 100 tests. They'd be better off picking and developing a young guy. But, I've not been marinated in the AB culture.
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@Windows97 said in All Blacks 2024:
On the plus side we appear to be developing in all area's aside form the loose forwards.
Have depth in the front row and hooker.
Locks which were a concern have been bolstered by Patty T (especially with his running) and Vaai has had good impact.
Ratima has added depth at HB.
BB and DMac look like quite a good dual playmaker option.
ALB and Proctor adding depth in the midfield.
Wings we have in abundance
Perofeta has played well at FB (above my expectations honestly).Only real concern is the loose forward trio, Finau has been underwhelming and appears to emulate Reubean Thorne, plays a lot of minutes but you never see him doing anything, Papps has been great on defence but limited on attack. Savea has been Savea and Sititi of course has added impact (both positives but both are playing at
but as a trio it just can't seem to fire. Blackadder looked terribly off the pace, grasping tackles as he was a step or two out of position and Jacobsen seemed to beat him to the ruck continually. I really wish Lakai had been given the oppertunty instead.Depth-wise I'm feeling more optimistic, game-plan wise not so sure. Exits, being outsmarted and out performed in the tactical kicking game and lack of go forward ball in the forwards have been key weaknesses for years and don't show much signs of improvement.
It feels like were doing ok, and then well hit into a brick wall like SA or Ireland and it will all come crashing down.
I think the locks are still very much a concern. We got about 40 minutes of quality out of Tuipulotu but he faded in the first Test and was pretty poor in the second. We didn't really see much of Vaa'i (though he looked good in the second Test). Darry was strong off the bench against Fiji but obviously that's a lower standard with the match already sewn up.
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@Mr-Fish I agree if you are saying it’s a concern this year but I feel next year we will be in a much better place with locks.
Darry will be more experienced and hopefully continues to progress, Josh Lord(not that I like to bank on his health), when healthy is a player so here’s hoping he can remain healthy. Same could be said for Vai’i, hopefully he continues to progress. Fabian Holland is an absolute freak and would have been an All Black this season is he was eligible(he’s available next season), can’t wait to see him in the environment.
On a side note, I know for a fact that Razor and Jason Ryan are huge Zach Gallagher fans. If he can stay healthy and have a big season with the Canes, don’t be surprised if he’s around the environment also.
SB and PT are the 2 locks to be there, the rest will be great to see how it plays out, it’s not great right now but there’s talent there and could well be a position of strength come World Cup time.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish I agree if you are saying it’s a concern this year but I feel next year we will be in a much better place with locks.
Darry will be more experienced and hopefully continues to progress, Josh Lord(not that I like to bank on his health), when healthy is a player so here’s hoping he can remain healthy. Same could be said for Vai’i, hopefully he continues to progress. Fabian Holland is an absolute freak and would have been an All Black this season is he was eligible(he’s available next season), can’t wait to see him in the environment.
On a side note, I know for a fact that Razor and Jason Ryan are huge Zach Gallagher fans. If he can stay healthy and have a big season with the Canes, don’t be surprised if he’s around the environment also.
SB and PT and the 2 locks to be there, the rest will be great to see how it plays out, it’s not great right now but there’s talent there and could well be a position of strength come World Cup time.
That would hurt Cantab supporters if Gallagher were to make the ABs in the next year or so. Two locks who partnered each other for Christ College, leave and become ABs. Who would have thought.
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@Canes4life Could also add in that Fabian Holland went to Christchurch Boys High, just for that extra twist of the knife.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Canes4life Could also add in that Fabian Holland went to Christchurch Boys High, just for that extra twist of the knife.
And he'll also be an AB eventually.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
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@Landers92 said in All Blacks 2024:
@Mr-Fish I agree if you are saying it’s a concern this year but I feel next year we will be in a much better place with locks.
Darry will be more experienced and hopefully continues to progress, Josh Lord(not that I like to bank on his health), when healthy is a player so here’s hoping he can remain healthy. Same could be said for Vai’i, hopefully he continues to progress. Fabian Holland is an absolute freak and would have been an All Black this season is he was eligible(he’s available next season), can’t wait to see him in the environment.
On a side note, I know for a fact that Razor and Jason Ryan are huge Zach Gallagher fans. If he can stay healthy and have a big season with the Canes, don’t be surprised if he’s around the environment also.
SB and PT are the 2 locks to be there, the rest will be great to see how it plays out, it’s not great right now but there’s talent there and could well be a position of strength come World Cup time.
I think if any two of Josh Lord, Mitch Dunshea, Fabians Holland and Zach Gallagher are able to get through a full season next year then I'll be feeling very comfortable about the lock stocks. But obviously good/great Super Rugby players sometimes can't step up to the next level (Tuipulotu is the case in point) so we won't know for sure until they actually get the chance to prove themselves.
Really all I'm saying is that I don't feel any better now about the locks than I did a few weeks ago because simply based on what we've seen so far this year, a Scott Barrett/Tuipulotu combination isn't going to cut it against South Africa, Ireland or France.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As we've seen in the past, ALB is not who we want at 12 against top sides (and he never will be). If we're always running Barrett at 12 then we should be fine but we really need someone to back him up should injury strike.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2024:
They should pick Sotutu not because he's Pom eligible, but because he's more than good enough, and because he doesn't play exactly the same as Cane, Dalton and Jacobson. Adding Cane without dropping Jacobson would be dumb, and I don't know why you would choose Cane over Jacobson - he may be a hell of a guy but he's 5 years older, injury-plagued and close to retirement.
The balance problem is vs big packs we have a small 8 so need a big 6, and we only have Finau. Playing any 2 of Cane/Jacobson/Dalton/Blackadder with Savea is a small loose trio, and (particularly if not Blackadder) it's a loose trio that lacks ball runners, when we have a front row that lacks ball runners too. Maybe Hoskins is a chance due to Finau not lighting it up, but unfortunately I doubt it.
How long since Lord played?
Havili would be a poor selection. Not because he's a bad player but because we already have ample injury cover in our side, meaning his utility value is severely diminished. He also plays 12 nothing like JB plays 12, so he's not a like-for-like injury replacement to keep the team pattern.
Plummer would be a good idea because every side is going to target McKenzie, as he is both our most creative player and small. And if we lose him, we're in big trouble. That was the case before the initial selections too though, so they probably won't.Yes, who is our backup 10, BB? I'd still prefer Plummer.
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Moving this conversation to a (IMO) more appropriate thread
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He played reasonably well against Fiji
So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely
Given I played at centre more than any other position I feel I understand it well enough.
Again for the slow: **It was a game destined to make the All Blacks look competent when contrasted against the England series * . The team that played against England would've revelled in the acres of time and space afforded them by Fiji's defence. *
But maybe you need to understand rugby better, or watch more closely.
Can sort of agree with this (but that wasn't the issue). But what about Reece. And even in a game like this players can still show the skills they have that others lack. Like Proctor and his distribution and decision making skills compared to Reiko. Maybe these skills will desert Proctor in a tight match but I hope to starts so we can see
I think Proctor will definitely get more opportunities given we have as many Tests as we do SR rounds these days. And it's categorically a Good Thing™ that we have unearthed two very good centres currently in form for the All Blacks. The difficulty in determining form in this little experiment is replicability and changing important controls. Can Proctor play as well again when confronted by a disciplined rush defence while outside Jordie? How well can Rieko look against a Drua level defence outside ALB?
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2024:
Moving this conversation to a (IMO) more appropriate thread
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@Winger said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
@antipodean said in All Blacks vs Fiji:
He played reasonably well against Fiji
So one rating was 9/10. Another 8/10. Don't agree with all rating but maybe you need to understand centre play better. Or watch more closely
Given I played at centre more than any other position I feel I understand it well enough.
Again for the slow: **It was a game destined to make the All Blacks look competent when contrasted against the England series * . The team that played against England would've revelled in the acres of time and space afforded them by Fiji's defence. *
But maybe you need to understand rugby better, or watch more closely.
Can sort of agree with this (but that wasn't the issue). But what about Reece. And even in a game like this players can still show the skills they have that others lack. Like Proctor and his distribution and decision making skills compared to Reiko. Maybe these skills will desert Proctor in a tight match but I hope to starts so we can see
I think Proctor will definitely get more opportunities given we have as many Tests as we do SR rounds these days. And it's categorically a Good Thing™ that we have unearthed two very good centres currently in form for the All Blacks. The difficulty in determining form in this little experiment is replicability and changing important controls. Can Proctor play as well again when confronted by a disciplined rush defence while outside Jordie? How well can Rieko look against a Drua level defence outside ALB?
Argentina Australia and South Africa will present a much sterner test of course. The RC and the EOYT are crucial and we need to see a few guys being given chances in games against quality opposition, plugged into set combinations, not just a few garbage time minutes or a bunch of newbies sent into bat like Dunedin last year. Fiji taught us little of real value
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As another Ferner has commented, Jordie is the only big, straight running 2nd five in the squad. I really like ALB, but after a hard hitting debut against the Boks he’s been a 12 who uses footwork rather than running hard lines. I think at test level he’s more effective at 13.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024:
Which is the worst reason to select anyone ever.
So you want to cap him again to make him ineligible for another 3 years for England and presumably once he has done that then he can be dropped again?
He won’t get picked in TRC squad.
I was kidding.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2024:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2024:
If we take Cane and Jordan as given, then to me another lock is a must, so Lord or Darry. The latter is fit, and heavier, so would get my vote, with Lord on standby.
The obvious area to shore up is at 12, and Lam would be worth a look. Tupaea and Poihipi would also have supporters, given Havili is fairly long in the tooth.
My roughy would be to bring in Suafoa, and let LJ go. He's Kaino sized, a lineout target, who can cover lock, and has proven his intestinal fortitude in spades.What’s wrong with Jordie and ALB?
For me we have two test made 2nd 5s ready and made.
As another Ferner has commented, Jordie is the only big, straight running 2nd five in the squad. I really like ALB, but after a hard hitting debut against the Boks he’s been a 12 who uses footwork rather than running hard lines. I think at test level he’s more effective at 13.
See I don’t mind that sort of 12 when we have a 13 that plays direct like Proctor. A combination of different attributes.
