All Blacks 2024
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@DaGrubster yep mate other thing is as I have said, Anton Oliver said he knew as soon as he played first game for Toulon it wasn't for him. As he said the day he stopped playing for ABs was day the music died, and he knew he was playing just for money. Some people it doesn't suit, some ot does.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
As you say, the next 2 years are important for Razor to establish himself in international rugby
He's already established in international rugby - he's the bloody Head Coach of the bloody All Blacks.. He didn't think lack of international experience was an issue when going for the job so I don't see why it should be now NZR's actually given him the gig for 4 years.
I'd prefer he uses his time to develop his team based on the current AB core and the talent available to him. If he loses a few on the way then fine, as long as there's development I'd be OK with that.
But if he want's to go for a short-term sticking plaster approach with 37 yr-old retired players in key positions to ensure a good win ratio, then that speaks volumes for his player development skills to me - and not in a good way.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
If he loses a few on the way then fine, as long as there's development I'd be OK with that
Oh cool. Someone tell Razor don't worry about losing a few games cos Victor Meldrew says not to worry it's sweet.
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Nice ad hom, but not what I said.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Nice ad hom, but not what I said.
We don't know if Whitelock even came back how many games he would be playing - players can be developed and Whitelock can return. It's not mutually exclusive.
Other locks will get more gametime just with the loss of Retallick and that's not accounting for any more injuries.
Whitelock might be being eyed up to play the Dane Coles role of senior old pro towards the end of the depth chart (to use a US sports term).
It might be that they really rate this young Holland kid head and shoulders above the other players not already in the squad but he's not eligible til next year.
I'm not really sure who these mythical players are that would miss out on development if Whitelock returned.
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Ok Mr grumpy.
The reason I said that is he will want to not have the same issues that Foster had after 2 years. He wants to have gained trust with players the board the public.
We don’t want a repeat of the shitfest that happened with Fozzie do we? That will just undermine him, his staff and playing group and not set us up for success.
He is the Ab coach, but with zero wins as AB coach. Over 3 months away until his first match as aB coach.
The ‘chasing’ of Whitelock now seems more like the approach from Whitelock’s agent. Putting feelers out, providing options for his client. He would be a useful player/mentor/whatever you call him to have for a specific area of the AB squad that is seen as one of our biggest problem areas.
If he came back, I doubt he will start 15 tests this year.
Razor is different. And thank fuck for that tbh. There is plenty of evidence that he is excellent at building outstanding rugby teams that are highly skilled, technically excellent, and big on culture as well as developing and improving players.
Why are people suddenly questioning him after reading some news articles?
I get what you are saying about working with what you have got. But, so many players have developed into ABs under Razor that I only see his as excellent in a player development role.
I am not advocating for this but people say we don’t need to change eligibility rules yet. I think people are waiting for a few years of poor AB results until it becomes inevitable that we do this. Why wait for years of losses to make this change? Wouldn’t it be ideal to be able to get ahead of it, so we don’t suffer a number of poor results that force us to change, and be able to use it to our advantage with certain players/positions that helps improve or results without having to go through the pain first?
I agree it seemed strange to see him discussing eligibility in the summer. It seemed a wrong step for him to take at first.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
As you say, the next 2 years are important for Razor to establish himself in international rugby
He's already established in international rugby - he's the bloody Head Coach of the bloody All Blacks.. He didn't think lack of international experience was an issue when going for the job so I don't see why it should be now NZR's actually given him the gig for 4 years.
I'd prefer he uses his time to develop his team based on the current AB core and the talent available to him. If he loses a few on the way then fine, as long as there's development I'd be OK with that.
But if he want's to go for a short-term sticking plaster approach with 37 yr-old retired players in key positions to ensure a good win ratio, then that speaks volumes for his player development skills to me - and not in a good way.
Find someone who loves you like you loved Fozzie.
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@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Razor is different. And thank fuck for that tbh. There is plenty of evidence that he is excellent at building outstanding rugby teams that are highly skilled, technically excellent, and big on culture as well as developing and improving players.
I get what you are saying about working with what you have got. But, so many players have developed into ABs under Razor that I only see his as excellent in a player development role.
Exatly. And if he has 4 years and the skills to do all these things, why would you want to bring back retired players who'll be pushing 40?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Razor is different. And thank fuck for that tbh. There is plenty of evidence that he is excellent at building outstanding rugby teams that are highly skilled, technically excellent, and big on culture as well as developing and improving players.
I get what you are saying about working with what you have got. But, so many players have developed into ABs under Razor that I only see his as excellent in a player development role.
Exatly. And if he has 4 years and the skills to do all these things, why would you want to bring back retired players who'll be pushing 40?
It seems SW's agent sounded out NZR and NZR engaged. Sounds like both parties doing their jobs. I really don't get why this is such a big deal. If they can come to an agreement that sees SW come back, great. I'd rather SW's experienced shared in NZ than France. They have enough of our intellectual capital.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
As you say, the next 2 years are important for Razor to establish himself in international rugby
He's already established in international rugby - he's the bloody Head Coach of the bloody All Blacks.. He didn't think lack of international experience was an issue when going for the job so I don't see why it should be now NZR's actually given him the gig for 4 years.
I'd prefer he uses his time to develop his team based on the current AB core and the talent available to him. If he loses a few on the way then fine, as long as there's development I'd be OK with that.
But if he want's to go for a short-term sticking plaster approach with 37 yr-old retired players in key positions to ensure a good win ratio, then that speaks volumes for his player development skills to me - and not in a good way.
Hell I think other way from you Victor, best players should be used regardless of age. F*** using 4 years for WC development, that is not what tests are about!
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I don't think our depth is as shallow as people are making out, especially at lock.
I think part of the problem is that Sam W and BBBR almost arrived perfectly formed at AB level, and now we expect all locks too.
I think we'll Dane Coles some locks, as in we'll pick them, give them proper regular gametime and they'll be the business.
Ha. Remember when we all thought Hika Elliot was the better option?
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
As you say, the next 2 years are important for Razor to establish himself in international rugby
He's already established in international rugby - he's the bloody Head Coach of the bloody All Blacks.. He didn't think lack of international experience was an issue when going for the job so I don't see why it should be now NZR's actually given him the gig for 4 years.
I'd prefer he uses his time to develop his team based on the current AB core and the talent available to him. If he loses a few on the way then fine, as long as there's development I'd be OK with that.
But if he want's to go for a short-term sticking plaster approach with 37 yr-old retired players in key positions to ensure a good win ratio, then that speaks volumes for his player development skills to me - and not in a good way.
Hell I think other way from you Victor, best players should be used regardless of age. F*** using 4 years for WC development, that is not what tests are about!
The argument is hypothetical as well. It is based on what the wild imaginations of the Fern has come up with, takes on a life of its own, and then discussed like it is a real problem. Actually, it might be a good psychological study on how conspiracy theories work.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
I don't think our depth is as shallow as people are making out, especially at lock.
I think part of the problem is that Sam W and BBBR almost arrived perfectly formed at AB level, and now we expect all locks too.
I think we'll Dane Coles some locks, as in we'll pick them, give them proper regular gametime and they'll be the business.
Could just be me, but I see Josh Lord and Fabian Holland as a close to near ready-made combo who should be humming by 2027.
Obviously Holland isn't available until the EOYT 2025, but he'll be honing his craft in the mean time.
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I think Whitelock would be great. You don't do what he has done over such a long period of time without being there mentally. He's a winner
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We might see Savea 7 and Iose / Sotutu 8.
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@BerniesCorner said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
We might see Savea 7 and Iose / Sotutu 8.
I’m confused. Are you misspelling Akiras surname ?
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We might see Savea 7 and Brayden Iose or Sotutu at 8
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
@DaGrubster said in All Blacks 2024 - looking forward:
Razor is different. And thank fuck for that tbh. There is plenty of evidence that he is excellent at building outstanding rugby teams that are highly skilled, technically excellent, and big on culture as well as developing and improving players.
I get what you are saying about working with what you have got. But, so many players have developed into ABs under Razor that I only see his as excellent in a player development role.
Exatly. And if he has 4 years and the skills to do all these things, why would you want to bring back retired players who'll be pushing 40?
It seems SW's agent sounded out NZR and NZR engaged. Sounds like both parties doing their jobs. I really don't get why this is such a big deal. If they can come to an agreement that sees SW come back, great. I'd rather SW's experienced shared in NZ than France. They have enough of our intellectual capital.
It's a huge deal if you're trying to be as contrary under Razor's reign as you were under Foster's.
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@Victor-Meldrew I think maybe he see’s an opportunity to bring back an all time great and one of his most trusted lieutenants in a position that we are short in for experience.
It’s a specific role for what hopefully will be a short term problem.
And it appears it was initiated by the agent not Razor chasing him.
And with the attritional year we have ahead of us, perhaps he doesn’t fancy having tupou Vai’i as his senior lock when the inevitable injuries occur.
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Imagine the moans if it came out that SW approached NZR about coming home and they ignored the approach or told him to go away.
