RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina
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I don't have the answer but standing in a London pub watching Sam Cane, Whitelock, Tamaiti Williams face running on the pitch , Jordie Barrett and Ardie Savea doing his stuff is the best moment ever watching the ABs
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@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
That just shows you have no idea of the All Blacks legacy. It as @DaGrubster built on 120 years, and I would suggest it built on teams AND supporters.....
you both seem to be missing the point that some of us are making...yes...we all agree its taken 120 years to make a legacy....thats exactly why some of us feel Foz had done so much to damage to that legacy in only 4 years....you talk about supporters too, ive met far more AB fans that say they havent enjoyed watching the AB's play ( not just the results, how they are playing) over the last 4 years...far more likely to catch a replay than make an effort to watch live etc...than in the 40 years before that
just because something took so long to build doesnt mean its impervious....just makes it more of a shame when it starts to crumble
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@MiketheSnow I’m going and was hoping to face Wales and have their fans singing!
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@BerniesCorner said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@stodders said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
So if Angus blows a calf, Berry or Dickson will take over
And if Smith blows a calf what's the plan.
Just saying.We make urgent appointments with the cardiologist.
There’s two players that we can least avoid being injured, Nuggie and Ardie. Their replacements are okay-ish, but all the little stuff these two do during the game I don’t see them even in the same stratosphere.
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I'll say it, unless there are cards, I struggle to see a world where we lose this game. Our pack is way too good for theirs, we butchered them, particularly at scrum time with the majority of the pack that will start this one. We are too good in the backline, and we'll be way too focused on not letting this slip. There looks to be a bit of us against the world about this ABs team.
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@Kiwiwomble , I am not missing the point you are trying to make, the lagacy is that not in anyway detroyed because you know some part time supporters who say they won't watch because of Foster, or when the other things that were going to detroy trhe lagacy ie Sprinboks in 81, losing to Lions in 71, us losing 5 in a row in 98, they are ALL part of the lagacy. So you telling me all these fiends of yours didn't watch the ABs/Irish game on weekend? And they not watching the WC? You live long enough you will see it happen in any sport in any country with the bandwagon brigade,
Tana Umaga speaks of the bandwagon supporters and the shit that has gone on
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/133142590/rugby-world-cup-tana-umaga-hits-out-at-bandwagon-all-blacks-fans-and-ian-foster-criticism -
And anyway back to the thread about the ABs/Pumas, I just got home from Golf Club, and all there were I think a little too relaxed how the game will go this weekend. I think we have to give Pumas a lot of repect, they have earnt their place in semi, and they don't come easily.
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@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Kiwiwomble , I am not missing the point you are trying to make, the lagacy is that not in anyway detroyed because you know some part time supporters who say they won't watch because of Foster, or when the other things that were going to detroy trhe lagacy ie Sprinboks in 81, losing to Lions in 71, us losing 5 in a row in 98, they are ALL part of the lagacy. So you telling me all these fiends of yours didn't watch the ABs/Irish game on weekend? And they not watching the WC? You live long enough you will see it happen in any sport in any country with the bandwagon brigade,
Tana Umaga speaks of the bandwagon supporters and the shit that has gone on
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby-world-cup-2023/133142590/rugby-world-cup-tana-umaga-hits-out-at-bandwagon-all-blacks-fans-and-ian-foster-criticismi think its harsh to just brush off people that have watched for decades as just bandwagon jumpers but i guess thats an easy way to ignore the critics
I'm a more likely to brush off the opinions of those that blindly follow along as they dont seem to be actually giving it much thought
going to have to disagree with "bad" things like losses etc ADDING to the Legacy...adds to the history maybe...but people generally...IMO...talk about the legacy they are passing down as positive things
Edit: did you read that article? he's calling those that criticised him last year and now falling in line Bandwagon jumpers, nothing to do with those of us who criticized him them...and dont think winning will undo the damage done
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@Kiwiwomble Not just writing off people who have watched for decades as bandwagon jumpers, but watching on and off for decades when team is doing well is what bandwagon jumpers do. What supporters of a team do is support a team thorugh thick and thin , and don't say "I don't like the coach/player etc etc so I not watching anymore. That is the absolute meaning of a bandwagon person , and we not alone having them, all sports have them, we have seen huge crowds at cricket when NZ did well, hav e seen it at soccer druing the 80s ,Warriors start to sell out ground with all these great supporters who din't have time when they lost. You also get people who don't agree with everything that is happening who still support the team. A team is not the coach , or the individual players, it is the combination of them all! Mate I have not been keen on a few coaches (Mtchell, Mains,Burke etc) in my time of supporting the ABs, but regardless have never thought for a micro second that I still didn't fully support them and the rest of team.
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@Dan54 you're trying to force this definition of a bandwagon jumper onto to justify undermining people's opinion, i never said these people watched on and off, im talking about people that religiously would get up to watch games at 3am or go down to the pub with mates to watch a game and now are just as likely to watch a replay. You might not like it and you might be a "better" fan and i hope that makes you feel good, i know i wish i still enjoyed watching the AB's as much as i use to...but none of that actually invalidates peoples opinions other than in your head
I also didn't say these people dont support the AB's anymore, people can still support a team and criticise things that are done poorly
If you want to hold yourself up as the only true fan then fair play but i think you're being unfair to other including myself trying to imply they some sort of bandwagon jumper just because we feel some things over the last few years have have been unenjoyable
this all might be better placed in the All Black 2023 thread or something
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
If you want to hold yourself up as the only true fan then fair play but i think you're being unfair to other including myself trying to imply they some sort of bandwagon jumper just because we feel some things over the last few years have have been unenjoyable
Where did I say that I held myself as the only true fan? That is just crap and you know it. What I saying is a supporter (and I never use word fan) watches and supports ABs regardless of who is coaching or playing.
I talk to quite a few at gold club who don't watch it live , because they can't afford Sky and don't find watching games at pubs any good with it too often full of pissed jokers yelling etc( never watch games in pubs for that reason myself). I know a lot of people in this situation(and some in my family), but not one has said they don't watch because of how the team is playing or because of coach as you say. That is all I say. Hell I live in the Naki and a number were asking me if the final was on FTA this week.
But anyway as you say this is not thread for the discussion.
And you may want to talk to Umaga about bandwagon jumper etc anyway.And out of interest I call myself a bandwagon for NZ cricket team, I watch them etc,when it suits, but don't have a passion for them.
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@Dan54 you're literally lecturing me/us on how to be a good supporter, whats acceptable and whats not if we dont want to be judged as a bandwagon jumper and explained you watch live thick or thin regardless of whether you like the coach or a player...so you are saying in your eyes youre a better support than those that might have less enthusiasm for the AB's based on the last few years
dont know why i would have to have a chat with Tana, i agree with what hes saying, people changing their opinion from week to week, one or two results making people forget what they were saying as he has described...thats not the situation i was talking about
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@Kiwiwomble said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Dan54 you're literally lecturing me/us on how to be a good supporter, whats acceptable and whats not if we dont want to be judged as a bandwagon jumper and explained you watch live thick or thin regardless of whether you like the coach or a player...so you are saying in your eyes youre a better support than those that might have less enthusiasm for the AB's based on the last few years
dont know why i would have to have a chat with Tana, i agree with what hes saying, people changing their opinion from week to week, one or two results making people forget what they were saying as he has described...thats not the situation i was talking about
Not lecturing, anyone can be whatever kind of supporter they want, just telling you what I think is a supporter and it was about the AB legacy anyway, not about supporters. The discussion was has Foster damaged the AB legacy, I say no it takes more than a few not liking the coach to do that. But all good anyway.
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@Dan54 i honestly give up because it really seems like you're being deliberately obtuse
its not the fact some of us dont like foster that is damaging the legacy...we dont like him because we feel he he has damaged the legacy. you seem to be bending over backwards to twist things to make them sound trivial, below your elevated level of supporter
i say life long fans find less enjoyment...you try and say im talking about casual fans that dipped in and out
you also are the one that introduced the supporter argument
@Dan54 said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
@Machpants said in RWC SF: All Blacks v Argentina:
This is the same legacy that foster has been systematically dismantling since his appointment? There are many reasons none of us trust fosters ABs see the fosters first thread
That just shows you have no idea of the All Blacks legacy. It as @DaGrubster built on 120 years, and I would suggest it built on teams AND supporters.....
i was just answering you're point, i think its unfair to say a legacy involves supporters but brush off those that are unhappy as not real supporters
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It's all hyperbolic bullshit anyway. Damaged the legacy? jog on.
Lost the Bledisloe? No
Lost the Rugby Championship? No
Crashed out of the World Cup early? No"Oh but we lost to Ireland for the first time" they wail. Have Ireland ever been the best team in the world before?
"we lost to France!" well this is the best French team i have ever seen. And we've only played them in France.Has it all been sunshine and blowjobs? No. Losing to Argentina at home still rankles, despite the fact they gat an annual chance at it now. And there have been some very average games. But really, that is just us reverting to the mean. Even this tarnished legacy regime is winning 7 out of 10 times isn't it?
Not a vintage AB period, but the real old guys here will tell you about times we couldn't win games. Fuck, even i remember 1998.
