RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy
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@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.
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@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.
Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.
Hard to know because we haven't tried it enough and haven't given Mckenzie enough opportunity in pressure games.
From the limited stuff we have seen, it seems to work far better if Mckenzie is one of the dual playmakers, with either BB or RM as the other. IMO that's very clearly because they play similarly, and he plays differently. -
@Machpants said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Snowy said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
I have only just realised that Carley is the ref, and now I have an extra 2 hours to do something other than watch rugby on Saturday morning.
Sad that
mysomeone's lifelongspanlove of rugbyhas been diminishedtoby that point.Busy day for the basement.
But man that is sad, I can't believe you won't watch the abs cos of that. I want to see them play so well it doesn't matter
I keep basement room for people like Carley, but unfortunately I don't go to RWC anymore. Wayne Barnes was responsible for that.
The problem with watching it would be that I wouldn't actually be seeing the ABs play. It would be 2 hours of a pedantic prick, with no feel for the game, running around shouting "look at me" with some brief interruptions by the other 30 blokes on the field that I actually want to see. Even that is dependent on the unlikely event that he lets all 30 of them stay on the field at once.
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@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.
Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.
I still think it's who is at 10, RMo if he is 10 calls shots, and if wants to be first receiver he should be saying so!
I always remember Bryn Hall talking about how Crusaders operated while he was playing, and said they almost always used Havili as first receiver (and most other super teams did similar) until game reall broke up. -
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
i know it was only Namibia, but in the last game it also looks like BB is far happier deferring to DMac when he is at 10, and DMac is in the middle of everything.
Perhaps that all changes if we are under pressure or behind though.
I still think it's who is at 10, RMo if he is 10 calls shots, and if wants to be first receiver he should be saying so!
I always remember Bryn Hall talking about how Crusaders operated while he was playing, and said they almost always used Havili as first receiver (and most other super teams did similar) until game reall broke up.Just what you want in a modern five-eighth. An appearance in the last quarter.
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
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@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.
lol what? your whole argument is set piece, but you are ignoring one set piece
And then you are ignoring stats in favour of "your eyes"
Eyes that you would then ignore if the coaches told you different?That's not an opinion, that's you basically saying "well the coaches pick Taylor so he is obviously better"
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This post is deleted!
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boy it seems like forever ago we played Namibia...that was our last game right?
#crazycnutseverywhere
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@Toddy think isnt too bad for us, probably not ideal for anyone going into a quarter final after a bye...?
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@taniwharugby said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Toddy think isnt too bad for us, probably not ideal for anyone going into a quarter final after a bye...?
that probably depends on who you played before the bye. if you had a soft tune up game in to teh bye that's probably bad. if you had your tough pool game that's okay.
The flipside is playing your "knock out" pool game in the last week then gives you 4 straight big games
Our is pretty much perfect except we fucked up the first one (even though given the two options in the quarter it was pick your poison)
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
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@mariner4life said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Dan54 said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@reprobate said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Victor-Meldrew said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Tim said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Poor coaching, as is the standard.
Same coaching set-up when he was getting game-time and being so bloody effective coming off the bench. Weird.
Foster has always preferred Taylor, even when it was blindingly obvious that he was playing terribly and Samisoni was playing great. IIRC he dropped Samisoni despite being our best forward for the Irish decider, then continued using Taylor while our lineout and his general play was dogshit all last season. Taylor is a decent player, but his form last year was arguably the worst I've seen an AB get away with and keep being selected - and that's not when the cupboard was bare, but when we had another option who was clearly better. It is just shit selection.
Samisoni should be a bolted on starter by now. Taylor or Coles should be the bench guy, or if we were better at handling young players, Aumua could have been ready in time.
We all sit around bemoaning Super rugby and our lack of grunt up front - and we have that guy right fucking there and they won't fucking pick him!If what you say is true - and it may be - you have to question what value Ryan actually adds, don't you?
Not really. Foster's preference for Taylor and Taylor's terrible form pre-dates Ryan being involved.
Has Ryan changed that? No. Has he tried? No idea.
Buck stops with the head coach.Well personally I would be starting with Taylor, I a ST fan , but we need a bloody solid set piece going forward, and hence Taylor probably gets the nod. Would make no difference anyway, we all got our players we like and lo and behold any coach or coaches who don't put our players on field.
If you were to check line-out stats for last year, Samisoni would have been miles better than Taylor, yet they wouldn't drop Taylor and wouldn't start Samisoni. Taylor fucked up critical throws on multiple occasions. He was terrible, and his head clearly wasn't right but htey wouldn't rest him. He's been better again this year, but it's not an exaggeration to say that it lost us games last year, and it clearly has had a negative impact on Samisoni - why wouldn't it?
Assessing the scrum is not straightforward, because there are so many different combinations.
Assessing the impact in open play is obvious: Samisoni is the power man, Taylor and Coles the speed men. That to me says Samisoni starts, and the others impact.MateI don't assess scrums, as you have to be out there to do it. I don't make my opinions from reading stats, because basically the ones we get a not all that reflective of a game, I just old fashioned type of fella that makes his opinions (as I did when coaching etc) from watching. As I say I a ST fan anyway, just at this stage I not convinced he best option (though to be fair if coached said he was after watching games and trainings) I would have absolutely no probs, thay would have feedback aetc on scrum etc as well.
lol what? your whole argument is set piece, but you are ignoring one set piece
And then you are ignoring stats in favour of "your eyes"
Eyes that you would then ignore if the coaches told you different?That's not an opinion, that's you basically saying "well the coaches pick Taylor so he is obviously better"
No I not ignoring anything, I saying I don't have the knowledge to assess what's happening in scrums when ST is on, just for some reason we have struggled for dominance. But yes I would ignore what I THOUGHT I saw on tv in a scrum if coaches told me different. I don't argue as they get feedback from props etc as well. I not suggesting that anything is ignored , and I think you maybe just twisting whether accidently or on purpode what I wrote.
So isn't the opposite take saying I know more than the coaches sitting on my arse in front of tv, and not being at trainings etc? -
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
The implication (intended or not) sounds like the Chiefs couldn't win a game due to his defence..which is not true. I don't think anyone goes out thinking they won't defend unless they have a relationship with a bookie.
I am not going to lump him in the jesus/ethan category either but would probably add that if you look at it like a balance sheet, the points created (not necessarily scored directly) outweigh the points conceded as well.
When Reiko first moved to centre and even now still makes some bad defensive reads occasionally (not much anymore) but for me is one of the first picked because what he can break a game at any point and Stevenson has some of those qualities. Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
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@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
I've made the point before, but it shits me how you have to be perfect to make the squad, but once you are in you can make as many errors or have as many work ons as you want. You just need to get there, then she's apples.
If you are in the AB squad, then Super form means jack shit. If you are in the AB 23, then even test form doesn't matter week to week
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@bayimports said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
@Bovidae said in RWC Week 4: All Blacks v Italy:
Stevenson needs to re-sign with NZR first. Robertson should be having a word in his ear.
Coaches should be having a word in his ear about defending. That would do wonders for his ability to wear the black jersey again.
Is it an individual problem or a systematic problem? Does he have defending issues with the Chiefs or just the ABs? Genuine question because just about every outside back has defending problems in the AB system.
Aside from McLeod's bafflingly shit defensive systems for the All Blacks, Stevenson was noticeably crap at defending in SR. To the point it looked like he didn't want to.
The implication (intended or not) sounds like the Chiefs couldn't win a game due to his defence..which is not true. I don't think anyone goes out thinking they won't defend unless they have a relationship with a bookie.
SR in 2023 isn't in the same ballpark as Test rugby. It's a noticeable issue and no All Black in the modern era should be as bad as he is at half of the game.
I am not going to lump him in the jesus/ethan category either but would probably add that if you look at it like a balance sheet, the points created (not necessarily scored directly) outweigh the points conceded as well.
Cullen retired.
When Reiko first moved to centre and even now still makes some bad defensive reads occasionally (not much anymore) but for me is one of the first picked because what he can break a game at any point and Stevenson has some of those qualities. Still has work ons but for me needs to be in the mix.
Reiko also makes most of his tackles, as well as using his speed to cover for others. Give Stevenson another good year in SR with demonstrated improvement in this aspect of his game and he should easily make the squad.
