RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks
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@Steve said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@canefan said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Foster has hitched his wagon to BB and it is too late for changes barring injury. Jordan has been given no chance to try to give 15 a decent go, he will have to wait for Razor in 2024 like the rest of us
I just want us to select a team that makes the other team afraid of us.
Currently we are selecting teams on the basis that we are afraid of them.
DMAC, Roigard, Samisoni, Jordan at 15 are points of difference. Puzzles to be solved by the other team.
But we aren't using our bullets.
Hilarious. You name four players, only one of which is a forward and present that as an argument for resolving our inadequacies.
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Spiro Zavos on the roar is right on the money about the abs
Hilarious nonsense. He's calling for Ardie to play openside for the All Blacks, despite the fact he doesn't even play that position in SR and hasn't for years. Quoting Spiro makes any argument ridiculous.
Perhaps there’s an alternate view that Savea can and does play 8 in SR because it’s not Test Rugby
Unfortunately the RWC is Test rugby, not SR.
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@antipodean It would be somewhat ironic if Australia make the SF, or even final of this RWC. I know that is a big if.
Their pool doesn't have France in it, but it does have competitive teams in Fiji and Wales. Wales being coached by a guy who seemingly knows what it takes to get to SFs.
That would suggest that there is nothing inherently wrong with SR, but more with the selection and coaching of the NZ national team (given their SR players smack the hell out of Australian players week in and week out in SR).
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean It would be somewhat ironic if Australia make the SF, or even final of this RWC. I know that is a big if.
Where's the irony?
Their pool doesn't have France in it, but it does have competitive teams in Fiji and Wales. Wales being coached by a guy who seemingly knows what it takes to get to SFs.
That would suggest that there is nothing inherently wrong with SR, but more with the selection and coaching of the NZ national team (given their SR players smack the hell out of Australian players week in and week out in SR).
Australia has a reasonably competitive 23, but in SR they're spread amongst five teams.
The Wallabies have the benefit of an easy draw into the finals. Wales came into the RWC ranked 10th. If that's not a guaranteed path to a quarterfinal, I don't know what is.
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@antipodean QF should be the minimum they are after. Same as ABs.
To get to the SF, they will need to play Eng, Arg or Samoa.
To get to the final, they will need to beat one of NZ, France, Ire, SA or (unlikely) Sco. If they can win that SF, all I was saying is that SR is not the sole reason NZ aren’t playing great rugby right now.
Sometimes less is more when you’re trying to forge a team. Especially one that doesn’t break under mental and physical pressure in a knockout competition.
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean QF should be the minimum they are after. Same as ABs.
To get to the SF, they will need to play Eng, Arg or Samoa.
Two of those three they should be confident of winning against. With luck Farrell would be back and I think England are worse for him being there. Australia are a jammy team when it comes to RWCs.
To get to the final, they will need to beat one of NZ, France, Ire, SA or (unlikely) Sco. If they can win that SF, all I was saying is that SR is not the sole reason NZ aren’t playing great rugby right now.
I didn't suggest it was, so I find it confusing why you're arguing that point in response to me.
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Steve said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@canefan said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Foster has hitched his wagon to BB and it is too late for changes barring injury. Jordan has been given no chance to try to give 15 a decent go, he will have to wait for Razor in 2024 like the rest of us
I just want us to select a team that makes the other team afraid of us.
Currently we are selecting teams on the basis that we are afraid of them.
DMAC, Roigard, Samisoni, Jordan at 15 are points of difference. Puzzles to be solved by the other team.
But we aren't using our bullets.
Hilarious. You name four players, only one of which is a forward and present that as an argument for resolving our inadequacies.
Yeah this is all getting a bit ridiculous. The glaring weaknesses and fůck ups on the weekend were in the forwards. The idea that the path to victory lies in ditching the 15 for the 14 who was a bees dick from getting himself sent off, and selecting a reserve 9 who has played less than a half a test is fanciful at best. I mean you can't watch that game against France and claim with a straight face that we'd have won the game if only we'd had a better 15 and reserve 9. I'm not saying BB or ginga had blinders, far from it, but it's simply scapegoating at this point.
Roigard looks like a very good prospect but our record setting coach fucked any possibility of testing him prior to the RWC. I mean I don't even see the point of bringing him to the RWC if he can't potentially start at test. Webber is no Smith but is at least dependable.
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That is not what posters in the thread were saying, but going through and saying what can be changed. And Finau (a forward) was mentioned as well. Plus tactics. AND BB was playing as a hybrid 15/10, not just a 15.
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@nostrildamus said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
That is not what posters in the thread were saying, but going through and saying what can be changed. And Finau (a forward) was mentioned as well. Plus tactics. AND BB was playing as a hybrid 15/10, not just a 15.
As mentioned, those changes = deck chairs on the Titanic.
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Spiro Zavos on the roar is right on the money about the abs
Hilarious nonsense. He's calling for Ardie to play openside for the All Blacks, despite the fact he doesn't even play that position in SR and hasn't for years. Quoting Spiro makes any argument ridiculous.
Perhaps there’s an alternate view that Savea can and does play 8 in SR because it’s not Test Rugby
Unfortunately the RWC is Test rugby, not SR.
That was exactly my point
For Test rugby
Nasty bastard at 6
Big lump at 8
Ardie at 7You haven't found players who can fill those 6 and 8 positions consistently hence having to play Ardie at 8
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@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Spiro Zavos on the roar is right on the money about the abs
Hilarious nonsense. He's calling for Ardie to play openside for the All Blacks, despite the fact he doesn't even play that position in SR and hasn't for years. Quoting Spiro makes any argument ridiculous.
Perhaps there’s an alternate view that Savea can and does play 8 in SR because it’s not Test Rugby
Unfortunately the RWC is Test rugby, not SR.
That was exactly my point
For Test rugby
Nasty bastard at 6
Big lump at 8
Ardie at 7You haven't found players who can fill those 6 and 8 positions consistently hence having to play Ardie at 8
You have that arse about face. Because Ardie plays at 8 and Cane is nailed on (when fit) to play at 7, we're searching for a god to play at 6 to address the shortcomings of a player that isn't really a lineout option and doesn't hit rucks, while the other who isn't really a lineout option either, is too busy cleaning up rucks and smacking fluffybunnies to attempt to steal any ball.
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@antipodean Who is arguing?
I suppose I was responding to to your "where's the irony"...
It is ironic if the Wallabies make a SF if the state of SR is as appalling as several on here and many fans in the NH have mentioned. Oz beating England for instance would be something that runs contrary to what the SR bashers expect, especially if they were to do it by winning the forward battle.
Again, SR gets a bad rep for lack of forward battles. I disagree a bit with that. NZ rugby in SR does struggle with the homogenous approach that most NZ teams have, which used to work when that playing style led the world. But it isn't a SR thing per se.
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@antipodean In fairness to you, I'm probably making the point in response to the wrong person's post.
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@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@Machpants said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
Spiro Zavos on the roar is right on the money about the abs
Hilarious nonsense. He's calling for Ardie to play openside for the All Blacks, despite the fact he doesn't even play that position in SR and hasn't for years. Quoting Spiro makes any argument ridiculous.
Perhaps there’s an alternate view that Savea can and does play 8 in SR because it’s not Test Rugby
Unfortunately the RWC is Test rugby, not SR.
That was exactly my point
For Test rugby
Nasty bastard at 6
Big lump at 8
Ardie at 7You haven't found players who can fill those 6 and 8 positions consistently hence having to play Ardie at 8
You have that arse about face. Because Ardie plays at 8 and Cane is nailed on (when fit) to play at 7, we're searching for a god to play at 6 to address the shortcomings of a player that isn't really a lineout option and doesn't hit rucks, while the other who isn't really a lineout option either, is too busy cleaning up rucks and smacking fluffybunnies to attempt to steal any ball.
That's Foster's fault for selecting Cane as Captain
If I had to bet my house, then I would start Ardie at 7 over Cane every day of the week and twice on Sunday
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@antipodean His name is Scott Barrett. He hits rucks, is a lineout forward and has the athleticism to get around the park for 80 mins.
But he won't be played at 6 because of the other locks in the squad:
- one is coming back from injury
- one is creaking a bit and has to be managed
- and the other - i've no idea why Vaa'i is there
Given Lord played at Twickenham, i'm surprised he didn't make the grade. It isn't like Vaa'i has bags of experience over him. Or was the squad already decided by the time of the SA Twickenham test? Which suggests Vaa'i was selected as the lock/6 option rather than Barrett.
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@antipodean His name is Scott Barrett. He hits rucks, is a lineout forward and has the athleticism to get around the park for 80 mins.
But he won't be played at 6 because of the other locks in the squad:
- one is coming back from injury
- one is creaking a bit and has to be managed
- and the other - i've no idea why Vaa'i is there
We only have three locks, two of whom are shadows of their former brilliant selves and one of them is injured. This means we can't put Scott on the blindside when he's basically our best lock.
Given Lord played at Twickenham, i'm surprised he didn't make the grade. It isn't like Vaa'i has bags of experience over him. Or was the squad already decided by the time of the SA Twickenham test? Which suggests Vaa'i was selected as the lock/6 option rather than Barrett.
Agreed. I made the point before the RWC that they should take Lord as their fourth lock.
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@MiketheSnow I don't see what is wrong with Cane at 7. He does the dirty work. He moves bodies. He hits hard. He is on hand to support. He generally has low error games. He's a textbook test player.
I don't think he's as effective as before his last major injury, but I think he gets a bad press.
Savea had ample opportunity to showcase his leadership skills in the game against France, but didn't do much. He had a couple of flurries at the end of the first half when the French looked spent, but then he decided to go for 3 when the French were under the pump. The great chip at beginning of second half aside, he had the ball stripped as he crossed the line at the end of second half. He got monstered mostly in traffic as France put 2 or 3 on him when he carried.
I'm not pro-Cane. He has a completely different game to Savea. But he is always in doing the dirty work and I think the ABs missed that on Friday.
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@MiketheSnow Gatland loves Cane. That should speak volumes to a Welshman
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@stodders said in RWC Week 1: France v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow I don't see what is wrong with Cane at 7. He does the dirty work. He moves bodies. He hits hard. He is on hand to support. He generally has low error games. He's a textbook test player.
I don't think he's as effective as before his last major injury, but I think he gets a bad press.
Savea had ample opportunity to showcase his leadership skills in the game against France, but didn't do much. He had a couple of flurries at the end of the first half when the French looked spent, but then he decided to go for 3 when the French were under the pump. The great chip at beginning of second half aside, he had the ball stripped as he crossed the line at the end of second half. He got monstered mostly in traffic as France put 2 or 3 on him when he carried.
I'm not pro-Cane. He has a completely different game to Savea. But he is always in doing the dirty work and I think the ABs missed that on Friday.
You've just described the 6 you're looking for
And I wasn't advocating Ardie getting the 7 shirt and armband, just the shirt
