Super Rugby 2024
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@kiwi_expat I would sooner NZ sort out the NZ teams first. As one team always winning indicates an issue that needs to be addressed. This issue is as bad as weak Aussie teams.
Otherwise the weaker teams like the highlanders will just be weakened even more. With next level players moving to aust. For example PUJ may as well play in aust if he can still make the ABs. It would also piss me off if canes abs moved to aust. One adv when they make the ABs is the extra money paid to them by NZR. This can keep them in NZ. That adv would disappear.
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@Winger would players from the team that came last be their first targets? surely players from winning team would be more attractive
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There's some really stupid stuff in that article, but no surprise if it's posted on the Roar.
I'm not convinced an All Black would want to play in Australia for franchises other than the Brumbies. The other franchises are simply too weak and playing there wouldn't be helpful for their career in black. If it happened, the divide between the Brumbies and the other Aussie franchises would only grow bigger.
Also, the NZ players would be further away from their family and the Aussies wouldn't pay enough compared to Japanese clubs, so I don't think there would be too much interest anyway, at least for NZ to Oz movements.
I think the only NZ players who maybe could be interested are the 3rd stringers who don't get much game time, so non-All Blacks. That's the players you don't want to lose as a NZ franchise, because they're the depth you need in case of injuries.
The article also doesn't discuss the issue that if a NZ franchise signs an Australian player, they're weaking the already weaker franchises in Australia. It also doesn't address the impact on player development in Australia, which is seriously flawed. This author doesn't realise that these ideas of signing NZ players will harm the pathways of Aussie players.
@Winger said in Super Rugby 2024:
@kiwi_expat
With next level players moving to aust. For example PUJ may as well play in ayust if he can still make the ABs. It would also piss me off if canes abs moved to aust.Yep, 100%. As NZ fans, we don't want to see "our" players playing for Aussie teams. It was hard enough to see Beauden Barrett move from the Canes to the Blues. Imagine someone like Jordie Barrett, Rieko Ioane or Will Jordan playing for the Reds or the Brumbies.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Winger would players from the team that came last be their first targets? surely players from winning team would be more attractive
Aust would target any player they could get. Esp AB 15 players. Or close to like Flanders or Delany. With their larger size it could be an attractive option.
The pool of quality players in NZ would become smaller. This would impact most on the weaker teams with the current NZ set up. Esp when NZR pay players from the stronger teams on average a lot more money.
And allowing ABs to play for another country is a door I don't want opened. It would start with aust then the world. Slowly at first though. Just 3 or 4 then more ...
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2024:
I think the only NZ players who maybe could be interested are the 3rd stringers who don't get much game time, so non-All Blacks. That's the players you don't want to lose as a NZ franchise, because they're the depth you need in case of injuries.
But that's the point, it'd be better for the competition if they did go elsewhere, but people such as yourself are so fixed on what serves us best, instead of looking at the bigger picture.
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@kiwi_expat I'm a rugby fan who's pretty happy with the current competition. I'm also looking at the bigger picture: that of NZ franchises (collectively). None of these proposals make NZ rugby better.
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even im getting sick of going around and around
I think there is a fundamental difference between those that think a "good" or "successful" comp is one with a large number of competitive teams and those that think its the highest quality of rugby
i think that unless we have a much larger player pool those two are almost mutually exclusive
I am probably the former but lots of people are the later and thats fine and valid...but i dont think we can all be happy
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I think some people are missing a particularly important point and question. What do the players want? Do they want to have the opportunity to try a different environment and remain eligible for the All Blacks? Do they want to live somewhere different for a year and still be able to play international rugby? Is this a good move for the player's personal development. Looking past what is best for NZR and our franchises. Is this beneficial for our players as people. If the answer is yes and it had the potential to add some intrigue to the competition. Sounds a good idea to me.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
elsewhere, but people such as yourself are so fixed on what serves us best, instead of looking at the bigger picture.
Bigger picture. Only a mugs falls for this nonsense. If NZ fans don't care about NZs interest as opposed to the bigger picture, all our best players will end up overseas and we will have nothing to bargain with.
And Aust went for 5 teams when they have enough quality players for 2 or 3 max. Let them sort this mess out without screwing NZ of more players for 2 or 3 teams. And maybe destroying 1 or 2 NZ teams in the process.
I repeat. NZs focus should be to help even up NZ teams. And maybe give some more help to MP. We already send millions of TV money to Aust. And provide players to their teams. That's enough. Otherwise aust will just want more and more. Like a spoiled child they will never stop pushing. We need to put our foot down as Aust would do with us if the position was reversed
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@SouthernMann I did think of what players want. We may have different expectations of what players want though. I suggested that these ideas (of letting NZ players play in Oz) might not appeal to ABs (especially those who are not certain starters), but some non-ABs third stringers might like the idea of moving to Oz to get more playing opportunities, esp. if they have no expectation or hope to make the ABs. It also depends entirely on players' feelings of loyalty towards their franchise. Some will be very happy to stay where they are, also to stay close to family or because their partner has a job locally.
Edited to add that there were never any impediments to moving within NZ and still a large majority of players never move franchises. Why would that be any different if they could move to Oz without losing ABs eligibility?
The crux is however that professional rugby only exists with a fan support base. Without fans no sponsors. If a large number of popular players would leave their NZ franchise to play in Australia, that would weaken the support for the NZ franchises (and possibly for those players, too).
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I also think we need to stop being so anti-overseas. If they opened it up, allowed All Blacks to play in Australia, and encouraged New Zealand sides to sign a few more overseas players, I think it would improve the quality, and add some character.
As a Highlanders fan, Tanaka, Himeno & Burns have all been successes. Fans liked the players, and were impactful on the field. Think Bogado will go the same way in 2024 as well, just struggled with injuries. Even Haskell was fine.
Likewise, look at Pablo Matera, Kobus van Wyk, John Ryan, Joe Marchant... all these guys added to the competition. The Chiefs for instance may have a gap at tighthead prop. As opposed to getting a 29 year old journeyman who decided he didn't want to go to MLR, lets get a Georgian prop over. It would be awesome imo.
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@frugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
I also think we need to stop being so anti-overseas. If they opened it up, allowed All Blacks to play in Australia, and encouraged New Zealand sides to sign a few more overseas players, I think it would improve the quality, and add some character.
I notice you are new on here, the fern generally seems to be quite conservative, on every other rugby forum I've come across this is widely accepted as something that ought to happen.
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@kiwi_expat you know that saying something like "every other forum" is going to annoy people, just say in your experience
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@Kiwiwomble it's just an honest observation, this place can be frustratingly backwards on many things, the most interestingly thing to me is how the makeup & age demographic of planetrugby seems to be very similar to here but you rarely see traditionalist views that are quite common on here. I'm quite new to both forums so not sure how much it's changed over time, reddit is certainly much younger but also has a greater diversity of age groups.
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I got a question, one of the things that Aussies are whining about is money, how are they going to pay these top kiwi players enough money to go there? FFS they are losing players to overseas and are wanting cit price ones from NZ? The first thing they have to do is say if they want players from NZ to be availablr for Aus teams is have same rules as us, if their players go overseas they can't play for Wallabies!
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@kiwi_expat you understand the idea that you haven't actually been to "Every other forum" though dont you....so its just your experience on some other forums
i say this as someone that actually agree with the original point though...but wording it like that just winds people up and they will ignore the actual message
@Dan54 the overly simplistic answer is, stretch their budgets for some big names....get some better results...maybe win a couple...use that success to attract better/more sponsors/fans...sell more merch etc
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@Kiwiwomble I'm talking about the major active rugby forums, there are some ancient ones that might see a few posts in a year these days, lol.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
on every other rugby forum I've come across this is widely accepted as something that ought to happen.
The whole forum or 2-3 people you have been arguing with? Run a poll if you want to know what the TSF actually thinks.
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@kiwi_expat so you're on "The Rugby Forum"? whats your username, havent see you there i dont think
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 the overly simplistic answer is, stretch their budgets for some big names....get some better results...maybe win a couple...use that success to attract better/more sponsors/fans...sell more merch etc
Yep mate understand that, but the argument is they don't have money. Do you think MP have all this coin to buy players?? And the well run clubs generally have better players because they have spent the money on delevoping them, and making sure all is good behind the scenes. Almost any player etc who play at Crusaders will tell you they spend most money on academy and making sure back room staff are all aligned in making the team as good as they can be!
