Super Rugby 2024
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@Stargazer said in Super Rugby 2024:
I think the only NZ players who maybe could be interested are the 3rd stringers who don't get much game time, so non-All Blacks. That's the players you don't want to lose as a NZ franchise, because they're the depth you need in case of injuries.
But that's the point, it'd be better for the competition if they did go elsewhere, but people such as yourself are so fixed on what serves us best, instead of looking at the bigger picture.
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@kiwi_expat I'm a rugby fan who's pretty happy with the current competition. I'm also looking at the bigger picture: that of NZ franchises (collectively). None of these proposals make NZ rugby better.
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even im getting sick of going around and around
I think there is a fundamental difference between those that think a "good" or "successful" comp is one with a large number of competitive teams and those that think its the highest quality of rugby
i think that unless we have a much larger player pool those two are almost mutually exclusive
I am probably the former but lots of people are the later and thats fine and valid...but i dont think we can all be happy
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I think some people are missing a particularly important point and question. What do the players want? Do they want to have the opportunity to try a different environment and remain eligible for the All Blacks? Do they want to live somewhere different for a year and still be able to play international rugby? Is this a good move for the player's personal development. Looking past what is best for NZR and our franchises. Is this beneficial for our players as people. If the answer is yes and it had the potential to add some intrigue to the competition. Sounds a good idea to me.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
elsewhere, but people such as yourself are so fixed on what serves us best, instead of looking at the bigger picture.
Bigger picture. Only a mugs falls for this nonsense. If NZ fans don't care about NZs interest as opposed to the bigger picture, all our best players will end up overseas and we will have nothing to bargain with.
And Aust went for 5 teams when they have enough quality players for 2 or 3 max. Let them sort this mess out without screwing NZ of more players for 2 or 3 teams. And maybe destroying 1 or 2 NZ teams in the process.
I repeat. NZs focus should be to help even up NZ teams. And maybe give some more help to MP. We already send millions of TV money to Aust. And provide players to their teams. That's enough. Otherwise aust will just want more and more. Like a spoiled child they will never stop pushing. We need to put our foot down as Aust would do with us if the position was reversed
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@SouthernMann I did think of what players want. We may have different expectations of what players want though. I suggested that these ideas (of letting NZ players play in Oz) might not appeal to ABs (especially those who are not certain starters), but some non-ABs third stringers might like the idea of moving to Oz to get more playing opportunities, esp. if they have no expectation or hope to make the ABs. It also depends entirely on players' feelings of loyalty towards their franchise. Some will be very happy to stay where they are, also to stay close to family or because their partner has a job locally.
Edited to add that there were never any impediments to moving within NZ and still a large majority of players never move franchises. Why would that be any different if they could move to Oz without losing ABs eligibility?
The crux is however that professional rugby only exists with a fan support base. Without fans no sponsors. If a large number of popular players would leave their NZ franchise to play in Australia, that would weaken the support for the NZ franchises (and possibly for those players, too).
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I also think we need to stop being so anti-overseas. If they opened it up, allowed All Blacks to play in Australia, and encouraged New Zealand sides to sign a few more overseas players, I think it would improve the quality, and add some character.
As a Highlanders fan, Tanaka, Himeno & Burns have all been successes. Fans liked the players, and were impactful on the field. Think Bogado will go the same way in 2024 as well, just struggled with injuries. Even Haskell was fine.
Likewise, look at Pablo Matera, Kobus van Wyk, John Ryan, Joe Marchant... all these guys added to the competition. The Chiefs for instance may have a gap at tighthead prop. As opposed to getting a 29 year old journeyman who decided he didn't want to go to MLR, lets get a Georgian prop over. It would be awesome imo.
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@frugby said in Super Rugby 2024:
I also think we need to stop being so anti-overseas. If they opened it up, allowed All Blacks to play in Australia, and encouraged New Zealand sides to sign a few more overseas players, I think it would improve the quality, and add some character.
I notice you are new on here, the fern generally seems to be quite conservative, on every other rugby forum I've come across this is widely accepted as something that ought to happen.
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@kiwi_expat you know that saying something like "every other forum" is going to annoy people, just say in your experience
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@Kiwiwomble it's just an honest observation, this place can be frustratingly backwards on many things, the most interestingly thing to me is how the makeup & age demographic of planetrugby seems to be very similar to here but you rarely see traditionalist views that are quite common on here. I'm quite new to both forums so not sure how much it's changed over time, reddit is certainly much younger but also has a greater diversity of age groups.
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I got a question, one of the things that Aussies are whining about is money, how are they going to pay these top kiwi players enough money to go there? FFS they are losing players to overseas and are wanting cit price ones from NZ? The first thing they have to do is say if they want players from NZ to be availablr for Aus teams is have same rules as us, if their players go overseas they can't play for Wallabies!
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@kiwi_expat you understand the idea that you haven't actually been to "Every other forum" though dont you....so its just your experience on some other forums
i say this as someone that actually agree with the original point though...but wording it like that just winds people up and they will ignore the actual message
@Dan54 the overly simplistic answer is, stretch their budgets for some big names....get some better results...maybe win a couple...use that success to attract better/more sponsors/fans...sell more merch etc
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@Kiwiwomble I'm talking about the major active rugby forums, there are some ancient ones that might see a few posts in a year these days, lol.
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@kiwi_expat said in Super Rugby 2024:
on every other rugby forum I've come across this is widely accepted as something that ought to happen.
The whole forum or 2-3 people you have been arguing with? Run a poll if you want to know what the TSF actually thinks.
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@kiwi_expat so you're on "The Rugby Forum"? whats your username, havent see you there i dont think
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@Kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby 2024:
@Dan54 the overly simplistic answer is, stretch their budgets for some big names....get some better results...maybe win a couple...use that success to attract better/more sponsors/fans...sell more merch etc
Yep mate understand that, but the argument is they don't have money. Do you think MP have all this coin to buy players?? And the well run clubs generally have better players because they have spent the money on delevoping them, and making sure all is good behind the scenes. Almost any player etc who play at Crusaders will tell you they spend most money on academy and making sure back room staff are all aligned in making the team as good as they can be!
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Yep chicken and egg, so how much extra sponsors do you really think MP will attract with more players? And do they drop the salary cap? I not saying your ideas are to be ignored, but I will bet most teams are buying the best players they can under their salary cap!
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@Dan54 i guess im not talking about MP...their business case is a bit flawed, we're talking about aussie teams attracting AB's and there is a lot of untapped sponsorship money over here when it comes to rugby
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@Dan54 said in Super Rugby 2024:
The first thing they have to do is say if they want players from NZ to be availablr for Aus teams
They are at present
The only thing that some want (the forward-thinking wise ones) is for NZ to open the door (like Aust has) and allow players not playing in NZ to be eligible for the ABs. Starting with super rugby teams. I want this door to be kept tightly closed for as long as possible.
