Pick the next AB coach - two horse race
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@voodoo said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@dogmeat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Razor is the better option, because coaches have a window in which they are at their best, looking at past successful international & title winning coaches it's generally between 40-55 years
Ted was 58 before he got the gig....
I read somewhere last week that Schmidt was considering throwing his name out.
I think he was throwing it in.
Then out.
Schmidt's man-management style did not go down well at the latter stages of his Ireland tenure. Farrell is getting a lot more out of the team as their head coach, who's approach is more aligned with Razor's management style.
Joe is much better as an assistant coach away from the limelight & responsibilities of a head coach I think.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Don't really have an opinion between the two, but think NZR will go for Joseph. He seems to fit the NZR mould a bit better.
You might think that the NZR would question their mould though. Perhaps question if continuity is really the way forward.
(I voted Robertson, but I'm not particularly fussed.)
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@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
who's approach is more aligned with Razor's management style.
Gold...but you can't get away with throwing that out there and dismissing it.
Go on, explain - and the interesting but will be in how you know these details.
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@Chester-Draws said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Perhaps question if continuity is really the way forward
continuity worked previously, but it is clear the game has moved a long way since our last success when we were still clearly #1 which was probably post 2015 RWC, FF to now and we are playing catch up, so we need to up our game, so I guess it all depends what JJ or Razor manage to sell NZR
Sure on any given day there isnt much between the top teams, but right now, if we played to our best, and were coming up against the French or Irish at thier best, we come 2nd.
We need fresh thinking.
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@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
You don't think that Gatland has been approached? Isn't interested?
kiwi=expat, mate you have to stop taking stuff articles as gospel, it's bacically clickbait and seemingly aimed towards overseas kiwis who don't seem to have other news from home. I don't mean just in sport, but the vast majority of their news etc seems same. Click bait for people who don't really read papers or see NZ news prgrammes. That was always my impression and even morte since I been back home.
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@Higgins said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Dan54 said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Well I pretty happy with whoever gets the gig, it's been decided by people who know more than me.
If I vote it would be for JJ, I not sure I want ABs playing like a super team, and the whinge festival would be a thing to behold from all the experts on forums. LolI thought posters on here were the experts.
Well seemingly to the said posters they are, even those that don't go to rugby lol. The main scource of knowledge seems to be figures that they find somewhere on the net
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@Chester-Draws said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Perhaps question if continuity is really the way forward.
I don't think any of the likely candidates can be considered 'continuity'. Unless Ryan decides to throw his name in the ring
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
Either but Razor edges it if he has some experienced assistants. If MacDonald, Holland, etc, it seems the whole team would be on this massive learning curve.
I think experience is important. Some may forget that Mitch was only 38 when he coached the ABs in that 03 RWC. Deans was only 42-43 I think. Even though both had “done things”, still pretty inexperienced.
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@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
continuity worked previously, but it is clear the game has moved a long way since our last success when we were still clearly #1 which was probably post 2015 RWC, FF to now and we are playing catch up, so we need to up our game, so I guess it all depends what JJ or Razor manage to sell NZR
I'm just not convinced the problems centre entirely (or poss. even mainly) around the AB coaching set-up. Maybe it's just too easy to blame or praise whoever coaches the ABs, when there's real things which need to be fixed that are much deeper and harder to fix.
Give whoever get the job 2 years max, start looking at the structure of the game at the same time and review everything after that period.
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@Bones Farrell, Razor are distinctly different personality types than Schmidt, they are assertive and outwardly assured, they set a strong tone upfront as the main man seated at the front of the bus, with assistants who handle the detail.
Schmidt is not that specific guy in an ideal coaching structure if you want to get the absolute best out of a team - he does not like to front in the media & the head coach is supposed be the face figure of the team and is supposed to embrace that aspect.
Schmidt has a more reserved inward personality, great rugby brain (hence better as a technical assistant) but to connect & resonate with young players in the modern era that isn't enough anymore. The most important skillset of a head coach in 2023 has to be man-management first and foremost. Technical knowledge is secondary and is filled by the assistant coaches now.
Farrell and Razor are motivators & inspirational leaders of men, that is their primary role to empower, inspire, motivate.
They are front and center - in the media, cultivating the team culture inwardly and outwardly:
Joe Schmidt interview: planning to live without a plan... for now
Murray Kinsella sits down with the former Ireland head coach to reflect on the Rugby World Cup, his new book and much more.
“I feel most comfortable coaching on the pitch, most comfortable even trying to analyze or develop a strategy because those things are probably what I perceive to be more my strengths, rather than having to be in the public eye.”
An admission that he's more effective in an assistant coaching role and less effective in the hot seat..
Schmidt's unwillingness to handle the media and be in the limelight was well documented at Ireland.
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@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
More Wayne Smith than GH
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@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
to connect & resonate with young players in the modern era that isn't enough anymore. The most important skillset of a head coach in 2023 has to be man-management first and foremost. Technical knowledge is secondary and is filled by the assistant coaches now.
Farrell and Razor are motivators & inspirational leaders of men, that is their primary role to empower, inspire, motivate.
They are front and center - in the media, cultivating the team culture inwardly and outwardly:Can we keep the satire, parody and hero-worship to the Foster/Robertson thread where it belongs? This thread has been good so far.
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@Nepia said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
I'm genuinely surprised by the number of votes Joseph is getting. Has he already had this many fans on here? If so they're been a fairly silent minority.
I think you can think of the Robertson / Foster thread as like our own mini twitter.
You've got a loud minority continually shouting whilst contrarians have given up on posting their points of view as can't be arsed with the bullshit anymore.
Twitter (Foster/Rob) is not representative of the general population. Never has been, never will be.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@kiwi_expat said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
to connect & resonate with young players in the modern era that isn't enough anymore. The most important skillset of a head coach in 2023 has to be man-management first and foremost. Technical knowledge is secondary and is filled by the assistant coaches now.
Farrell and Razor are motivators & inspirational leaders of men, that is their primary role to empower, inspire, motivate.
They are front and center - in the media, cultivating the team culture inwardly and outwardly:Can we keep the satire, parody and hero-worship to the Foster/Robertson thread where it belongs? This thread has been good so far.
I take your point, but this post is a looking forwards as to what they can offer, not anything else, so it is sitting in the right spot IMHO.
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@nzzp said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@ARHS said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
I am glad a proper panel is being set up to consider the options because the choice will reverberate through super level and below.
The whole structure needs attention. Super is no longer preparing players for Tests. We need to refocus on the quality of the rugby, the feeders and pathways, and how we develop and retain coaches and players.
100% this. Super rugby doesn't look close to what Ireland/France, the two best teams on the planet at the moment, are dishing out.
It's always been a bit more helter skeler, but now it's chalk and cheese.
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@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
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@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
I agree that Ireland's recent success has been built on a unified approach across their next tier down but in reality it is really only one or two teams that they need to work with and those teams also play among other comps as well for variety and testing.
Our problem is that if we 'control' the super sides we aren't developing coaches/ ideas/ introducing new skills etc and we become the very thing we currently complain about with noth having SA involved. One flavour.
It is a hard balance.
Sooner or later that Ireland style will be worked out or laws will change etc and they will have to adjust a big system rather than look within their own and see what they have that will work.
If rugby was still just a 'simple game' where the better skilled side would win we'd be in but currently complex training patterns on attack and defence are required. Ireland are like a finely tuned car that will conk out when a key component fails.
I do agree that we have player gaps that should be somehow filled through targeted development. Maybe a specialist NZR coaching unit to prepare rising players? -
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
I agree that Ireland's recent success has been built on a unified approach across their next tier down but in reality it is really only one or two teams that they need to work with and those teams also play among other comps as well for variety and testing.
Our problem is that if we 'control' the super sides we aren't developing coaches/ ideas/ introducing new skills etc and we become the very thing we currently complain about with noth having SA involved. One flavour.
It is a hard balance.
Sooner or later that Ireland style will be worked out or laws will change etc and they will have to adjust a big system rather than look within their own and see what they have that will work.
If rugby was still just a 'simple game' where the better skilled side would win we'd be in but currently complex training patterns on attack and defence are required. Ireland are like a finely tuned car that will conk out when a key component fails.
I do agree that we have player gaps that should be somehow filled through targeted development. Maybe a specialist NZR coaching unit to prepare rising players?Like IRANZ, but without the "I"?
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@Stargazer said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Crucial said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@taniwharugby said in Pick the next AB coach - two horse race:
@Victor-Meldrew which is where the real leadership is (NZR and Coaching team) go back to c 2009-2015 when we far and away the best and most consistent side around, sure we had generational players too, but what happened was there was buy in across the super teams and even at provincial level with the likes of Cron running skill sessions to upskill from the ground up.
Now, it doesnt appear there is much consistency or 'centralised' planning at least to upskill in these problem areas (ball playing front rowers) 10s to control the game, 9s with supper passing etc and look at what they are doing right in the NH and take some 'learnings' ( @booboo ) from them to try and help us lift our game.
I agree that Ireland's recent success has been built on a unified approach across their next tier down but in reality it is really only one or two teams that they need to work with and those teams also play among other comps as well for variety and testing.
Our problem is that if we 'control' the super sides we aren't developing coaches/ ideas/ introducing new skills etc and we become the very thing we currently complain about with noth having SA involved. One flavour.
It is a hard balance.
Sooner or later that Ireland style will be worked out or laws will change etc and they will have to adjust a big system rather than look within their own and see what they have that will work.
If rugby was still just a 'simple game' where the better skilled side would win we'd be in but currently complex training patterns on attack and defence are required. Ireland are like a finely tuned car that will conk out when a key component fails.
I do agree that we have player gaps that should be somehow filled through targeted development. Maybe a specialist NZR coaching unit to prepare rising players?Like IRANZ, but without the "I"?
Yes but with a planned focus on filling upcoming gaps where natural skills don't meet game needs
