All Blacks 2023
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
as you say perhaps Akira and Hoskins are more highlight packge players than 80 min grunt men?
Sotutu has had an inconsistent year. Not surprised he was dropped.
The fiction around Akira not doing the hard work is so far off the mark. For years he's topped Blues stats and since returning from injury he's been a defensive and clear out machine this year. Unfortunately he has not been able to show much on attack in 2023 but that's more of a team issue
Steve's takes are very simplistic. Split players into players he likes and dislikes and repeat dumb cliches. Very dull.
Personally on the loosies I would have picked the same group but swapping Akira for Shannon
What do you think of Shannon's workrate this year? I thought at times he was lucky to make the Highlanders side as other loosies were putting in real effort and SF seemed to half arse it ever since signing overseas. His contact work in particular was down on his usual standards. At least in previous years he's had good SR form
Frizell must do some things that we don’t see (maybe they have stats on hard carries or dominant pick/gos or something) as I wouldn’t have him there. However, they see him and Finau as the same sort of player, so I mostly get the selection - I’m just not convinced he brings that heavy of a shoulder.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
as you say perhaps Akira and Hoskins are more highlight packge players than 80 min grunt men?
Sotutu has had an inconsistent year. Not surprised he was dropped.
The fiction around Akira not doing the hard work is so far off the mark. For years he's topped Blues stats and since returning from injury he's been a defensive and clear out machine this year. Unfortunately he has not been able to show much on attack in 2023 but that's more of a team issue
Steve's takes are very simplistic. Split players into players he likes and dislikes and repeat dumb cliches. Very dull.
Personally on the loosies I would have picked the same group but swapping Akira for Shannon
What do you think of Shannon's workrate this year? I thought at times he was lucky to make the Highlanders side as other loosies were putting in real effort and SF seemed to half arse it ever since signing overseas. His contact work in particular was down on his usual standards. At least in previous years he's had good SR form
Frizell must do some things that we don’t see (maybe they have stats on hard carries or dominant pick/gos or something) as I wouldn’t have him there. However, they see him and Finau as the same sort of player, so I mostly get the selection - I’m just not convinced he brings that heavy of a shoulder.
Both from Tonga? I hope Finau isn't similar to Frizell in the black jersey.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2023:
I also think that Frizell is very lucky to make the squad, but he's not the only player.
Ryan says their 6s are both big, physical players but they need to get more out of them.
Hard to know for sure, but it seems Weber going off shore counted against him but it didn't count against Shannon
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yeah, frizell is weird one, not only has he got a history of failing to step up in the black jersey...at most he has tending to not shit the bed....but this year he was fighting to keep his highlanders jersey from 22 year old and some of us thought withy provided more when he played
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@gt12 I think most of the back decisions revolve around what they plan to do with Beauden.
My thinking is that he's the incumbent 15 - and that's where he will start off. If he's not there, in my mind he won't make the 23 because Mo'unga and DMac have both very clearly been much better at 10 than him this year.
Question then is whether they think he's good enough to cover 10 in case of injury - because that might dictate whether DMac is on the bench, or not (remember, I'm firmly of the opinion that Richie will be our starting 10). And I'm not a fan of switching out your 10 unless they're having a 'mare or get injured.
Also possible that instead of Beaudy at the back, they decide to play DMac there, which gives better cover at 10 (and possibly a better - but shorter - fullback).
An alternative scenario is that they drop the idea of a first five at fullback, shift Jordan there and Telea takes the right wing. Stevenson comes firmly into that equation. I'd like to see them try this at least once in the RC.
I didn't expect them to drop Clarke, because they invested so much in him last year - I'm sure Leicester will get a chance on the left to show he can cut it there now, but maybe not first up.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks 2023:
I also think that Frizell is very lucky to make the squad, but he's not the only player.
Ryan says their 6s are both big, physical players but they need to get more out of them.
Hard to know for sure, but it seems Weber going off shore counted against him but it didn't count against Shannon
I might be off the mark but perhaps they see Weber as a player that can come in to fill a gap but not necessarily the game style they actually want. Keep him playing in ABXV so he’s fit should the call up come.
I like Christie as an impact style player but I also think there are some flaws that need to be ironed out.
Roigard has all the tools but will be a case of whether he can step up
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Yeah and there might be situations where they want to see someone play in AB xv with specific instructions, rather than be injury cover in the main squad.
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
yeah, frizell is weird one, not only has he got a history of failing to step up in the black jersey...at most he has tending to not shit the bed....but this year he was fighting to keep his highlanders jersey from 22 year old and some of us thought withy provided more when he played
Having Finau in there (same type of players as Frizell - yet this season has shown to be much more effective) makes Frizell even more of a foodbill for the squad.
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Disappointed that Stevenson isn't in there as either wing or FB (he can fill either easily). Him and DMac combined have dominated the kicking game in super rugby this year and I believe that Stevenson has been a key cog in helping Dmac be in the form he's in and play the way he's been able to play this season.
Basic Chiefs tactics has been to kick the ball downfield as they're always going to win the game of forec-back with SS and Dmac's distance and then wait for a poor kick from the opposition to either get good field position or counter off. Hasn't been pretty but has been effective.
I would think this style of game would be suited to the pressure cooker atmosphere of RWC finals footy. However I can just see RM, CC, Talea and Jordan trotting out to the WC 1/4's and semis - a tactical kicking combination that ensures we play as much of the game as possible in our own half. With BB coming off the bench so he can chip-kick from his own 22...
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I reckon Frizell has looked good this season especially when he played at lock.
I’m hoping they give Finau a crack at starting - don’t mind if it’s the Boks or Argies.
I think Barrett might start at lock for the first couple of tests at least.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks 2023:
@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Dan54 how do you know it's just a missed call? How do you know that they even knew they were supposed to call him back?
Mate a missed call from the coach on weekend of team naming?? Ok.
It was definitely just a missed call? No VM or text message? Ok.
Well I don't know, assumed a voicemail when they didn't answer, or how did they know they were out of team? DUH!
Oh right so now you know he left a voicemail saying they're dropped. That's pretty classy. Gosh all this information you know and you're holding out on us.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2023:
I’m hoping they give Finau a crack at starting - don’t mind if it’s the Boks or Argies.
It's pointless having selected him if they don't. He needs to start one of the first two tests.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks 2023:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2023:
I’m hoping they give Finau a crack at starting - don’t mind if it’s the Boks or Argies.
It's pointless having selected him if they don't. He needs to start one of the first two tests.
Unfortunately a hallmark of Fosters career has been pointless selections.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
My thinking is that he's the incumbent 15 - and that's where he will start off. If he's not there, in my mind he won't make the 23 because Mo'unga and DMac have both very clearly been much better at 10 than him this year.
Remember the hookers last year? I won't be in the last bit surprised if Barrett starts and DMac is lucky to make the bench.
And I expect @Victor-Meldrew to goddamn love every second of it if it happens.
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i have to add...we've been here before i feel, they pick some new players for the squad...but in our hearts we know that frizell will start and if he doesn't it will be scooter, BB will be 15, jordan and clark on the wings, these new guys might get a cap here of there just to lock them in but short of injuries they wont get much game time
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@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks 2023:
i have to add...we've been here before i feel, they pick some new players for the squad...but in our hearts we know that frizell will start and if he doesn't it will be scooter, BB will be 15, jordan and clark on the wings, these new guys might get a cap here of there just to lock them in but short of injuries they wont get much game time
Bingo.
Only slight glimmer of hope is maybe with all that's happened he's throwing the shackles off and embracing change?
But I'm not going to be tricked again and have my heart stomped all over, not with prom night coming up.
I'm going to the game at twickers and I have to watch anything close to the team I posted earlier, I might instead just watch the coaches box, from the roof, with a scope.
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@Bones this is what we talked about, possibly in another thread, i recon frizell (and others) thinks he's untouchable..."i can phone it in and still get the call up"..."why try harder"
Its clear a lot of professional players see it as a job first and foremost, less so an honor or even a challenge to be the best
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2023:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2023:
My thinking is that he's the incumbent 15 - and that's where he will start off. If he's not there, in my mind he won't make the 23 because Mo'unga and DMac have both very clearly been much better at 10 than him this year.
Remember the hookers last year? I won't be in the last bit surprised if Barrett starts and DMac is lucky to make the bench.
And I expect @Victor-Meldrew to goddamn love every second of it if it happens.
I think the Beaudy vs Richie contest got decided decisively last year for Fozzie and if he had any thought of regressing, last weekend would have stomped all over that.
I guess there's a chance of DMac surpassing Richie if he brings something they desperately want in their first five - but, I can't see it happening this close to the RWC.
Codie Taylor has been very good this year and bears watching, though!
