All Blacks v England
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
It's the area of our game which hasn't improved.
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I wonder if they need fresh coaching ideas on defense, other teams predict us too well and players are getting isolated, out of position, or targetted.
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@nostrildamus Sure the Irish did that.
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
Unfortunately we don't have the right defense coach to help address that either. Instead we have someone that seems intent on overcomplicating things and then blaming the players for "not learning quick enough". I really think that is a big factor in Clarke's decision making on defense.
He certainly doesn't defend like this for the Blues. That game where we had the wings shooting up and in just didn't work IMO.
And Havili attacks very differently for the Crusaders and has had great success, but hey that doesn’t matter 😎
There’s a couple of things I notice with Clarke’s defence - he seems flat footed and hence we’ve seen him chasing the player far too often; he just misreads the attack, that’s not pattern it’s just about decision making.
Hopefully he can turn it around because the more other teams see footage of his play, it will be exploited over and over.
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D Duluth forked this topic on
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
Unfortunately we don't have the right defense coach to help address that either. Instead we have someone that seems intent on overcomplicating things and then blaming the players for "not learning quick enough". I really think that is a big factor in Clarke's decision making on defense.
He certainly doesn't defend like this for the Blues. That game where we had the wings shooting up and in just didn't work IMO.
Agreed on that aspect as evidenced. But the sevens coaches did not seem to be able to improve his defensive positioning and decision making either.
It is always about matching a set of skills to the game plan for coaches. I. E. Linebreaking power v agility and speed to react. No issues with the former.
I think Nankivell and Aumua need to be viewed in a similar light across the full skillset. The former has lapses in passing accuracy but is exceptional elsewhere. -
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v England:
@ARHS said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v England:
@Bones said in All Blacks v England:
@Kirwan there's more and more rocks. I think his performance recently has probably been on a par to what saw Faingaanuku dropped, I'd be very tempted to give Leicester another go.
But I've said before I think Clarke has free reign to find something until the world cup selection.
That's the negativity nexus again, he's still doing plenty well - but people just talk about the mistakes - which is fine, but I'm happy to point out the positive and hope he sorts out whatever is going on with his balance.
I kind of think that Foster needs to tell him to be super selfish, sort of like Cullen, and if it's 1 on 1 don't look to link up just run over/around the defender.
I agree with your last sentence, that's what I was getting at earlier when I said I'd actually be ok if he was just hungus and not a great linker.
But when you take the attacking lapses with the now multiple defensive errors, it's hard to keep justifying his place. In a RWC knock out game, one of those defensive errors can mean a game and an exit. That's not to say all the guys will be perfect always, but he's made enough errors now to suggest he's more prone than most
Yep, he definitely needs to improve. But also, the person replacing him has to be better. In this squad that's Reece or Reiko - and Reiko is also the best centre so not really an option. Last game Reece was disappointing too, and also a different style of player.
With Telea able to play a more powerful/physical wing style it might open the door for Reece at 11 again, but others seem to think it's too much of a risk to play him. Personally I think you should reward good games and pick him again.
I'm not as down on Reece as some, he may not have been great last outing, but he has been bloody consistent prior.
I def wouldn't advocate for moving RI, he's locked in for 13 IMO and should start there in 90% of the remaining tests inside JB
I REALLY, REALLY like Clarke and want him to be great - excellent in the air, powerful, seems like a great guy - but the defensive lapses are killing me at the moment. I'm not quite ready to send him home on the next flight, but I do think that his spot should be closely monitored next year
With the defence side of things, we tackled as a team 80% the last game, JB missed four tackles, and a group missed 3 each. Something is definitely wrong with this side of the game, not just with Clarke.
It used to be you could point at one or two players, now it seems to be across the team.
I think all opponents will notice Clarkes positioning and how he commits to a point he can't recover defensively from. I watched him closely in sevens and thought it was an insurmountable problem there. Seems too high risk for AB's to play him without marked improvements as he becomes a target for opposition attacks in my view.
Unfortunately we don't have the right defense coach to help address that either. Instead we have someone that seems intent on overcomplicating things and then blaming the players for "not learning quick enough". I really think that is a big factor in Clarke's decision making on defense.
He certainly doesn't defend like this for the Blues. That game where we had the wings shooting up and in just didn't work IMO.
Agreed on that aspect as evidenced. But the sevens coaches did not seem to be able to improve his defensive positioning and decision making either.
It is always about matching a set of skills to the game plan for coaches. I. E. Linebreaking power v agility and speed to react. No issues with the former.
I think Nankivell and Aumua need to be viewed in a similar light across the full skillset. The former has lapses in passing accuracy but is exceptional elsewhere.A coachable problem though, so might explain why they are persisting with playing him. Not many wingers better in the air, if any. Has speed and power and a high workrate. So plenty to like.
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For all the talk of removing Caleb, there doesn't appear to be a left wing that would walk in, unless people want to move RI again.
Options appear currently with who we think is fit and available;
RI moves from 13 to 11?, where he has looked good at 13 and most want to see more game time with JB at 12
Do they bring back Leicester at 11 ? unlikely
Does Reece play 11 and Telea 14? possible and Reece can play 11
Does Stevenson who has played (11,14,15) play 11? possible also but unlikelyI don't mind the last option as other players don't have to move to accommodate, but revolves around a different skill set. I suspect although Caleb has things he can work on, the things he does do well, fit for their power winger strategy and although we haven't seen a complete performance probably keep him in the team rather than trying anyone new.
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@bayimports i dont think im at the "drop him" phase yet, but i think we need to play to his strengths first...if he under delivers after that then questions can be asked but at the moment we seem to only be asking him for front foot crash ball and a safe pair of hands under the high ball
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@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
I'd like Shaun Stevenson to be given the start ahead of Caleb.
Just because I like shiny new things.He's not even in the squad though is he? He wasn't even originally in the AB XV either (for some weird reason known only to Foster and Ryan).
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@Nepia said in All Blacks v England:
@Frank said in All Blacks v England:
I'd like Shaun Stevenson to be given the start ahead of Caleb.
Just because I like shiny new things.He's not even in the squad though is he? He wasn't even originally in the AB XV either (for some weird reason known only to Foster and Ryan).
which is why I agree with @Bovidae that Reece appears to be the only option and unlikely any change..
how he was not in the original AB XV squad was baffling
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The thing that baffles me is that Reece has delivered on the vast majority of occasions in Black. Although Clark's performances aren't really as bad as this forum makes out to counter my own argument..., even so I would have thought Reece's inclusion in the team to play England would be less than controversial. His defense is good, he works like an extra loose forward, and his positional play is good.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack Yeah, the Reece one is strange. Does commit the occasional penalty when he comes in and gets involved in the breakdown / tries too hard.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v England:
The thing that baffles me is that Reece has delivered on the vast majority of occasions in Black. Although Clark's performances aren't really as bad as this forum makes out to counter my own argument..., even so I would have thought Reece's inclusion in the team to play England would be less than controversial. His defense is good, he works like an extra loose forward, and his positional play is good.
I think Reece has been more consistent. When he is shut out he is really shut out (doesn't have the knee high impact of Clarke) but that sounds to me like Clarke is better off the bench.
Edit: but he only covers wing I think (unless he does a son of Eroni transformation)- so ok bench may not be a good idea.
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@nostrildamus Reece was a centre when I first watched him..
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v England:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in All Blacks v England:
The thing that baffles me is that Reece has delivered on the vast majority of occasions in Black. Although Clark's performances aren't really as bad as this forum makes out to counter my own argument..., even so I would have thought Reece's inclusion in the team to play England would be less than controversial. His defense is good, he works like an extra loose forward, and his positional play is good.
I think Reece has been more consistent. When he is shut out he is really shut out (doesn't have the knee high impact of Clarke) but that sounds to me like Clarke is better off the bench.
Edit: but he only covers wing I think (unless he does a son of Eroni transformation)- so ok bench may not be a good idea.
I like Reece off the bench, because his helter skelter style is something the English defence is vulnerable to late in the game.
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ENGLAND XV
15. Freddie Steward (Leicester Tigers, 15 caps)
14. Jack Nowell (Exeter Chiefs, 43 caps)
13. Manu Tuilagi (Sale Sharks, 48 caps)
12. Owen Farrell (Saracens, 99 caps)
11. Jonny May (Gloucester Rugby, 70 caps)
10. Marcus Smith (Harlequins, 15 caps)
9. Jack van Poortvliet (Leicester Tigers, 5 caps)1.Ellis Genge (Bristol Bears, 41 caps)
2.Luke Cowan-Dickie (Exeter Chiefs, 39 caps)
3.Kyle Sinckler (Bristol Bears, 54 caps)
4.Maro Itoje (Saracens, 60 caps)
5.Jonny Hill (Sale Sharks, 17 caps)
6.Sam Simmonds (Exeter Chiefs, 16 caps)
7.Tom Curry (Sale Sharks, 43 caps)
8.Billy Vunipola (Saracens, 66 caps)FINISHERS
16.Jamie George (Saracens, 70 caps)
17.Mako Vunipola (Saracens, 72 caps)
18.Will Stuart (Bath Rugby, 23 caps)
19.David Ribbans (Northampton Saints, 1 cap)
20.Jack Willis (unattached, 5 caps)
21.Ben Youngs (Leicester Tigers, 119 caps)
22.Guy Porter (Leicester Tigers, 3 caps)
23.Henry Slade (Exeter Chiefs, 50 caps) -
It’s an experienced side overall other than the very newish 9/10 combo. I do like both players and there is talent of a bit raw, but it should be an area of focus for the ABs defence.
