All Black props
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@Bovidae What they also did well - Newell and De Groot especially - is handle and pass well. Newell obviously had that one handling error that lead to Beaudy getting binned but he also threw a great in ball to Jordie the phase before Havili scored at the end.
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@pakman said in All Black props:
but Nepo’s and Ofa’s scrummaging is a step up from Lomax
They're not exactly rock solid scrummagers to build your team around though. Both still fail at scrum time so they really need to be moved on I reckon.
Edit to say: I still think Tuungafasi has value off the bench though.
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@Crucial they’ll give Moody every chance to get fit and ready for the RWC and all going well with his rehab, he’ll be in the squad for whatever tests are before the RWC and then a call will be made after that.
De Groot definitely looks the sort of player you’d go into the trenches with.
Bower has to work on consistency, but has the ingredients.
On the TH side, I think Ta’avao has really improved. Fitness is the issue.
Only one of Ofa or Laulala should go. I don’t think we can carry both. I’d opt for Ofa
That leaves one spot for Newell or Lomax - RC, EOYT and Super form next year will determine it as too early to call.
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@ACT-Crusader I am really pleased with the LH trio being Bower, de Groot and Moody for a RWC, that's solid as from what we've seen this year.
Maybe Ofa needs a EdG style rocket up him, when he turns it on he's brilliant, but he turns it on less often than I make an insightful post.
I'm completely sold on Newell, not so much on Ta'avao. If Lomax continues his improvement (as he was doing at the Highlanders and any other time he's not with the canes) he'll overtake him.
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@ACT-Crusader
With his mobility, strength and the fact he has another season for further upside and experience - I think Newell should be a certainty for the WCI know everyone has De Groot love, but he still looked pretty bloody immobile to me - but very willing.
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With one more year under his belt, Tamaiti Williams could be a real option as he can play on both sides of the scrum. He is not a penalty magnet like Ofa T who could cost the All Blacks dearly if he is - one more time - red carded.
One to watch for the future is Brewis. He is a powerful scrummager and useful in the loose. On the TH side, I hope Ma'au will develop nicely as he is beefy and pretty powerful. Tosi is another prospect, still a bit raw as he is a former loose forward, but he is probably the most impressive prop in NZ with ball in hand.
Norris seems to have lost a few of his credits after the second game against Ireland. However, his potential is big. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Black props:
@Bovidae What they also did well - Newell and De Groot especially - is handle and pass well. Newell obviously had that one handling error that lead to Beaudy getting binned but he also threw a great in ball to Jordie the phase before Havili scored at the end.
Didn't EDG throw a beautiful pass in the middle of the first half? I thought...
To whoever said Nepo was one of our best scrummagers, is he still? I thought I saw him having trouble in one of the earlier tests (test 1 against the Irish perhaps)... and I can't remember the props being dominant (then again, Ryan wasn't in charge)..
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@nostrildamus to be fair I think it was that he's better than Lomax (Nepo). He's never been a dominant scrummager, but probably slightly more competent on AB ball. I really don't think it's that big a margin to make it worth it though - it's not like he's never penalised or dominated.
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@Bones said in All Black props:
@nostrildamus to be fair I think it was that he's better than Lomax (Nepo). He's never been a dominant scrummager, but probably slightly more competent on AB ball. I really don't think it's that big a margin to make it worth it though - it's not like he's never penalised or dominated.
Yes I was hoping he and Ofa would capitalize on their importance for the next few years until the young props come through and Ofa used to be pretty mobile and a solid tackler but gee I get worried with the cards for him and Nepo can rack up a few penalties..
Was hoping I'd see a bit of Tamati Williams on the field-he is massive, but I wonder if his 1.96m height might be a weakness against shorter props and if his 144kg or so would be hugely taxing around the field at the speed of the international game these days..
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@nostrildamus
Uini Atonio is weighing 152 kgs and is playing test rugby. Not for 80 minutes but for 50 to 55 minutes. He is one of the reasons why the French pack is so dominant. -
@cgrant and probably more mobile these days than ever before. Tamaiti has a bit of a case of concrete boots, but of course is very young and I have no doubt he'll be working on that explosive power and balance. Next year could well be his coming of age.
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@nostrildamus Laulala didn't play in the 1st test but yes, he is still our best TH scrummager. I'd still have him personally.
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@African-Monkey said in All Black props:
@nostrildamus Laulala didn't play in the 1st test but yes, he is still our best TH scrummager. I'd still have him personally.
I just feel like that's going down the road of selecting a hooker because he's the best thrower.
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@Bones said in All Black props:
@African-Monkey said in All Black props:
@nostrildamus Laulala didn't play in the 1st test but yes, he is still our best TH scrummager. I'd still have him personally.
I just feel like that's going down the road of selecting a hooker because he's the best thrower.
Agree. The way scrums are reffed these days, dominance is only rewarded when it is complete and utter destruction. Against the big teams you only need to be able to hold your side up because sure as hell they can and even if you can get them to budge it won't give you much advantage.
In other words being a full package of carrying, tackling, passing and scrummaging totally trumps being the strongest scrummer.
What's with all the warm fuzzies on Moody? He went downhill impact wise ages ago. As I said earlier I see the value in having some old heads around so we don't have to go to deep into the pool of younger tyros but they aren't where I'd be focussing. -
@Bones said in All Black props:
@nostrildamus to be fair I think it was that he's better than Lomax (Nepo). He's never been a dominant scrummager, but probably slightly more competent on AB ball. I really don't think it's that big a margin to make it worth it though - it's not like he's never penalised or dominated.
You obviously didn't see Super rugby semi in which Nepo absolutely destroyed a certain J. Slipper.
He played the final test, and likely with a niggly neck.
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@Bones said in All Black props:
@African-Monkey said in All Black props:
@nostrildamus Laulala didn't play in the 1st test but yes, he is still our best TH scrummager. I'd still have him personally.
I just feel like that's going down the road of selecting a hooker because he's the best thrower.
If you take three THs to RWC you want one of them to be a first class scrummager. Nepo is it for time being, unless you count Owen.
