All Black props
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@Chris-B said in All Black props:
@pakman Yeah - I'm still scarred with Lomax's performance against the Tahs.
Be interesting to see how he goes for the rest of the season - the Jaapies made some odd front row selections that bit them on the arse, but Tyrel did well enough against them and he's useful around the paddock.
I've really got Fletch coming great on my wishlist though.
Do you reckon Owen Franks has any part of the conversation - given that he supplanted Tyrel at the end of the Canes season (and presumably Ryan knows him well)?
Every prop has a Waterloo experience or two and they learn from it. I would think after that game Owen would have taught Lomax how to handle himself in that situation. Since then, Lomax has been pretty impressive.
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@Chris said in All Black props:
The Argies will be a decent test for the props selected for these 2 tests.
We might confirm a few things or some might be found out.Would argue for Newell and Lomax both getting game time. Argie LH 5’9” and a barrel of muscle. Gave Tupou strife at weekend.
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@pakman said in All Black props:
@Chris said in All Black props:
The Argies will be a decent test for the props selected for these 2 tests.
We might confirm a few things or some might be found out.Would argue for Newell and Lomax both getting game time. Argie LH 5’9” and a barrel of muscle. Gave Tupou strife at weekend.
I think those two deserve another chance to build on that SA test.
If they come through well in these 2 tests v Argies they have to be in the WC squad, with an experienced 3rd choice as back up. -
Speaking of props, de Groot and Lomax weren't anymore effective as ball-carriers than Bower and Ta'avao were a week earlier. They also made less tackles by comparison.
What they did do well, especially Lomax, was to clean at rucks to allow phases to be built and pressure to be applied. So we might not need our props to do that job if they are doing other roles well. That said, I don't think Laulala does much now outside of scrummaging so he would be the first experienced TH prop I would phase out.
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@Bovidae What they also did well - Newell and De Groot especially - is handle and pass well. Newell obviously had that one handling error that lead to Beaudy getting binned but he also threw a great in ball to Jordie the phase before Havili scored at the end.
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@pakman said in All Black props:
but Nepo’s and Ofa’s scrummaging is a step up from Lomax
They're not exactly rock solid scrummagers to build your team around though. Both still fail at scrum time so they really need to be moved on I reckon.
Edit to say: I still think Tuungafasi has value off the bench though.
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@Crucial they’ll give Moody every chance to get fit and ready for the RWC and all going well with his rehab, he’ll be in the squad for whatever tests are before the RWC and then a call will be made after that.
De Groot definitely looks the sort of player you’d go into the trenches with.
Bower has to work on consistency, but has the ingredients.
On the TH side, I think Ta’avao has really improved. Fitness is the issue.
Only one of Ofa or Laulala should go. I don’t think we can carry both. I’d opt for Ofa
That leaves one spot for Newell or Lomax - RC, EOYT and Super form next year will determine it as too early to call.
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@ACT-Crusader I am really pleased with the LH trio being Bower, de Groot and Moody for a RWC, that's solid as from what we've seen this year.
Maybe Ofa needs a EdG style rocket up him, when he turns it on he's brilliant, but he turns it on less often than I make an insightful post.
I'm completely sold on Newell, not so much on Ta'avao. If Lomax continues his improvement (as he was doing at the Highlanders and any other time he's not with the canes) he'll overtake him.
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@ACT-Crusader
With his mobility, strength and the fact he has another season for further upside and experience - I think Newell should be a certainty for the WCI know everyone has De Groot love, but he still looked pretty bloody immobile to me - but very willing.
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With one more year under his belt, Tamaiti Williams could be a real option as he can play on both sides of the scrum. He is not a penalty magnet like Ofa T who could cost the All Blacks dearly if he is - one more time - red carded.
One to watch for the future is Brewis. He is a powerful scrummager and useful in the loose. On the TH side, I hope Ma'au will develop nicely as he is beefy and pretty powerful. Tosi is another prospect, still a bit raw as he is a former loose forward, but he is probably the most impressive prop in NZ with ball in hand.
Norris seems to have lost a few of his credits after the second game against Ireland. However, his potential is big. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Black props:
@Bovidae What they also did well - Newell and De Groot especially - is handle and pass well. Newell obviously had that one handling error that lead to Beaudy getting binned but he also threw a great in ball to Jordie the phase before Havili scored at the end.
Didn't EDG throw a beautiful pass in the middle of the first half? I thought...
To whoever said Nepo was one of our best scrummagers, is he still? I thought I saw him having trouble in one of the earlier tests (test 1 against the Irish perhaps)... and I can't remember the props being dominant (then again, Ryan wasn't in charge)..
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@nostrildamus to be fair I think it was that he's better than Lomax (Nepo). He's never been a dominant scrummager, but probably slightly more competent on AB ball. I really don't think it's that big a margin to make it worth it though - it's not like he's never penalised or dominated.
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@Bones said in All Black props:
@nostrildamus to be fair I think it was that he's better than Lomax (Nepo). He's never been a dominant scrummager, but probably slightly more competent on AB ball. I really don't think it's that big a margin to make it worth it though - it's not like he's never penalised or dominated.
Yes I was hoping he and Ofa would capitalize on their importance for the next few years until the young props come through and Ofa used to be pretty mobile and a solid tackler but gee I get worried with the cards for him and Nepo can rack up a few penalties..
Was hoping I'd see a bit of Tamati Williams on the field-he is massive, but I wonder if his 1.96m height might be a weakness against shorter props and if his 144kg or so would be hugely taxing around the field at the speed of the international game these days..
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@nostrildamus
Uini Atonio is weighing 152 kgs and is playing test rugby. Not for 80 minutes but for 50 to 55 minutes. He is one of the reasons why the French pack is so dominant.
