All Blacks v Pumas 1
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws Yeah - I'd agree with most of those changes - but, pairing RTS and Tupaea in the midfield is pretty experimental.
It is experimental. We might lose. Oh, wait…
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Pepe said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Well done Argies.
ABs very poor.
Most random reffing performance I have seen for some time, well since that Wales v Boks test.
He's simply not up to standard but he wasn't the reason you lost.
Was a factor.
Take him out and we win.
Not convinced
Ref wasn't committing the penalties and throwing the ball in shit
Ref invented penalties, for one side and ignored the other side.
It created the scoreboard pressure. And subsequent panic.
Sure we did stupid shit too.
But change that factor and put a proper ref in charge and that result changes.
That's down to the captain, players and coaches not adapting to the ref
Everyone knew he's useless before kick off
NZ did not play the ref, Argentina did
End of
So you're saying the referee's inadequacies affected the result?
I agree entirely
The team's inadequacies affected the result much more
Take one factor out and the result changes
Not giving away so many penalties to allow the Pumas to stay in touch?
Yes.
That is another different factor.
But then ask yourself were all those penalties legit, or were they the result of an incompetent referee?
I thought a couple were a bit rough on the ABs. But then, your hooker detatched from the maul for his try, so....
I like that the ref was pretty strict on latching player going to deck - and fairly consistent.
Again... change that factor ...
Or be good enough that a couple of decisions aren't in frame.
I wondered about this at the time. On the replay it looks like ST manages to keep holding on to the player in front despite his shoulders losing contact. I thought as long as physical contact remained they are still bound?
Technically speaking: bound to the shoulder. In practice it is a little looser than that, but that one was barely hand grip on the shorts
Certainly an area of the game that needs cleaning up. If you had to be bound properly, it would make defending mauls easier, as mauls would cease to be mauls 90 % of the time with the 1 hand 'bind' that is so prevalent in today's game.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@taniwharugby One thing we can take away from this season.
When Mako rugby is weak, that ABs are weak!
Chris I'll never forget the night of the 2019 npc final... you know what happened that night😟
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Maybe the problem is that sometimes a third of the playing XV are from two families and neither show a propensity for intelligent play.
Possibly no coincidence that the best player all year got this way without his brother there to distract him.
So see ya Akira, Scott and Beauden. It’s been good but time to move on.
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@taniwharugby One thing we can take away from this season.
When Mako rugby is weak, that ABs are weak!
Chris I'll never forget the night of the 2019 npc final... you know what happened that night😟
It was still a great night - though not if you were from Wellington!
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chris said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Cheika even thinks Robertson is a great coach a piece from the Pumas press conference.
He’d been asked about No 8 Pablo Matera, who helped the Crusaders win a record-extending 13th Super Rugby crown this year, and played a big hand in a superb performance by the Pumas’ loose forwards
“I think that the Crusaders have made a really huge mark, and Scott Robertson has made a really huge mark on Pablo. He came here to learn more about rugby, didn't come here for money or anything like that, and it shows the quality of the franchise and the coaching here, he's come back a heaps better player - mentally and technically.
That is some A level mind games right there, well played Cheika.
Maybe but is it wrong?
It was a compliment
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@JC said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws Yeah - I'd agree with most of those changes - but, pairing RTS and Tupaea in the midfield is pretty experimental.
It is experimental. We might lose. Oh, wait…
That's the conundrum, though.
We may think we can't make it worse by trying something different - but, we most certainly can!
Playing Tupaea at centre is basically playing spin the bottle. He hasn't managed to nail his specialist position, so let's play him somewhere else that's different and probably harder.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@JC said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws Yeah - I'd agree with most of those changes - but, pairing RTS and Tupaea in the midfield is pretty experimental.
It is experimental. We might lose. Oh, wait…
That's the conundrum, though.
We may think we can't make it worse by trying something different - but, we most certainly can!
Playing Tupaea at centre is basically playing spin the bottle. He hasn't managed to nail his specialist position, so let's play him somewhere else that's different and probably harder.
You’re right of course. How far away Goodhue and ALB?
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@JC said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Chester-Draws Yeah - I'd agree with most of those changes - but, pairing RTS and Tupaea in the midfield is pretty experimental.
It is experimental. We might lose. Oh, wait…
That's the conundrum, though.
We may think we can't make it worse by trying something different - but, we most certainly can!
Playing Tupaea at centre is basically playing spin the bottle. He hasn't managed to nail his specialist position, so let's play him somewhere else that's different and probably harder.
Yeah lets not keep doing that.
I have seen enough of Jordie on the wing,Savea at 8 etc.
Play players in their specialist positions. -
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Cane is an awful captain.
Nice guy.
Shit captain.
Yeah, we seem mentally weak. As soon as something doesn't go our way we start playing panicked rugby and making errors. In this game the ref has flustered us and we haven't reacted well at all. Under McCaw we would have adapted but tonight we've just lost our way completely.
Sunday morning thread read. That fluky try seemed to inspire panic. There is a obvious failure to assess the situation, in particular the ref’s style and the oppo’s tactics, and adjust ours to suit.
Surely the best 10s don’t need to learn this? Maybe they need to play some rugby in the trenches to remember the basics? As opposed to Harlem Super.
More to follow.
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@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@booboo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@stodders said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@JC Exactly how Argentina beat the ABs for the first time
Incompetent ref?
Made their tackles, waited for mistakes, kicked their penalties, scored a fortuitous try.
Brilliant (and winning) strategy with that ref. Pumas outthink ABs. 🤦🏻♂️
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@antipodean said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@hydro11 said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Can't blame the ref for this. We have just been shit.
I don't think we have. This ref is removing all opportunity for momentum and inventing offences.
Argentina haven't played any rugby.
Yeah and how shit is that. We have been so poor you don't need to play rugby to beat us,
Not with a ref who punishes a team that's playing.
And an oppo who chooses to play rugby with such a ref in its own half.
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Foster on Cane after yesterdays test
"Clearly he (Cane) is under the spotlight,'' Foster said. "We are all under the spotlight when things don't go well. But behind the scenes, (he is) strong.
"I thought a lot of his tackle and work around the breakdown was a big shift up in the last two games, and we are pleased with that.''
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@voodoo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Don't disagree with those saying the difference was largely in the forwards (as always).
But the scene was set for this one from the outset when our first backline play was a Havili crash ball straight off 10, and we followed it a few seconds later with an insipid Mo'unga high kick to nowhere
Players being asked to do things that don't suit their game, us wasting the decent ball we have.
I also think a lot of blame for our performances should be laid at A Smith's feet. We relied on him so much for so long, and now he offers no game management, no clever kicking, certainly no sniping. Time to move on I think, at least for the EOYT
BB and Mo'unga carving up SR and leading their teams to the final, and then looking completely fucking lost for the ABs, is probably the most damning thing about the AB coaches right now.
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@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul also mentioned on a podcast that Schmidt had been approached to work as attack coach during the Irish series but didn't feel it was "appropriate" as he was so close to the Irish. So he stuck to his strategist/selector role until the paddies had departed.
My immediate reaction was ....fuck off then and clear your desk, if that's where your allegiances are.
That is some super weak sauce
Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@Steve said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Gregor Paul also mentioned on a podcast that Schmidt had been approached to work as attack coach during the Irish series but didn't feel it was "appropriate" as he was so close to the Irish. So he stuck to his strategist/selector role until the paddies had departed.
My immediate reaction was ....fuck off then and clear your desk, if that's where your allegiances are.
That is some super weak sauce
Don’t let the door hit you in the arse on the way out
Grant Fox said the same thing earlier this year.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
@voodoo said in All Blacks v Pumas 1:
Don't disagree with those saying the difference was largely in the forwards (as always).
But the scene was set for this one from the outset when our first backline play was a Havili crash ball straight off 10, and we followed it a few seconds later with an insipid Mo'unga high kick to nowhere
Players being asked to do things that don't suit their game, us wasting the decent ball we have.
I also think a lot of blame for our performances should be laid at A Smith's feet. We relied on him so much for so long, and now he offers no game management, no clever kicking, certainly no sniping. Time to move on I think, at least for the EOYT
BB and Mo'unga carving up SR and leading their teams to the final, and then looking completely fucking lost for the ABs, is probably the most damning thing about the AB coaches right now.
Just to cheer everyone up, IMO had Owen Farrell or Jonny Sexton come on for us at the 50 we would have won easily.
Stuff
