Springboks v All Blacks 2
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Forwards were a massive step up. But our scrum was still poor - are the locks not great? Felt like we conceded so many scrum penalties - particulary at the end - and the Bokke just piggypacked over tha tall the way downfield.
Scrum penalties have been a headache for us all year. Not many scrums in the game, but we struggled -- this has to be one of the major workons.
The thing that was awesome was seeing effective cleaners at the ruck. God knows what happened last week - but this week there were players ready to protect the ball, and ball carriers puttin gthe ball back on our side (not tucked into their body).
RM was mixed. Showed some of the qualities he's got, but also some of the downsides (particualrly carrying into big boys in traffic). Anyone see BB's distance at altitude in the kicking too - playing in Joberg is a bit crazy.
Huge result, really impressed. Still think Foster should go, because of the body of work over the last 3 years ... but we could have him to the RWC.
That is too harsh on scrums.
Each side pinged for taking brake foot back before call.
Frans gained penalty when Cane unbound from De Groot and he had to hold full Bok TH side with just Scooter behind him. But also got one back when Frans over expended and flopped. So 1-1. Don’t recall Lomax conceding.
Bower had been good last week against Frans, but twice penalised vs Koch. Once when Koch bored in and Bower drove under him. Many would have given that other way. Next scrum Bower stayed wide and Koch found gap between him and Taylor and surged through. Fair penalty, albeit probably a symptom of earlier ruling.
So 3-1, but arguably ought to have been 2-2.
Boks shaded it.
Agreed. Given we had a new props at Ellis Park..we did pretty well IMO. Against that Bok pack you'd expect 1-2 scrums to creak and groan. Also we still have Ofa, Angus and Laulala as part of the TH rotation so an area where we have some depth. Just need to turn a few of them into world class.
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much improved performance, we actually played like a team or at least tried too
RM was far from perfect but he was trying to put others into space/gaps, was stark comparison to BB who's options seem limited to "world class run through tiny opening"....."hospital pass to someone not expecting it"....or "boot aimlessly"
Our towers and pods also seems set closer to the breakdown giving the backline more space and those towers/pods did more than just take contact and try and recycle, de groot tipped the ball several times perfectly, and not just to the same player. sometimes to RM looping and sometimes to the rest of his pod in motion
there was actually the basics of a game plan
JB was rock solid at the back under the high ball and on Defence...but still not seeing a spark on attack
I am firming in the camp of i'd just love to see
11 Clark
12 JB
13 RI
14 Reece
15 JordanJust to see how it would work
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@TheMojoman said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chris said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chris said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nepia said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I know Clarke is copping some crap for his missed tackle but it was technically a good tackle that he appeared to just slip out of. Maybe he should have gone higher or lower, but I think 9/10 on players that tackle sticks.
I'm more annoyed with Sam Whitelock's silly pass in the 22 than with that missed tackle.
if it was a technically good tackle why did he badly fall off and let the try in because it wasn't technically that good.
way to completely miss the point
The point is he missed the tackle badly.
Shit happens TBH. He had him covered, was even a good hit but just slipped off. I remember Tana doing something similar against Boks some years ago against the young Boks 13 Marius Joubert.
At the 10 sec mark.
For me Clarke hit a bit high at the hips then slipped off.
Needed to hit a bit lower below the hips and he would have taken both legs together and dropped him. -
@MajorRage said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
This is a really good highlights package. Shows more than just the scoring, but all the lead in to all the tries as well as a couple of moves which didn't get points.
Just call it 'The Ardie Reel'
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@Chris said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chris said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nepia said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I know Clarke is copping some crap for his missed tackle but it was technically a good tackle that he appeared to just slip out of. Maybe he should have gone higher or lower, but I think 9/10 on players that tackle sticks.
I'm more annoyed with Sam Whitelock's silly pass in the 22 than with that missed tackle.
if it was a technically good tackle why did he badly fall off and let the try in because it wasn't technically that good.
way to completely miss the point
The point is he missed the tackle badly.
I think you’re underestimating what Am brought to the party
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Well, I wasn't expecting that. Not even close.
All Blacks finally fronted up and started to play rugby at the kick off. Instead of just standing back and seeing what the opposition had to throw at us, they hit rucks, they smashed into the tackle and they did everything they could to actually get the ball in space to their potential game breakers - Clarke, Savea, Ioane, Jordan.
It was clear from the get go that they had something to prove. I thought Frizell was truly outstanding, relishing in his role to hit the line. Same for Samisoni who is really looking at being one of our core players to build a team around. We also seemed to put huge respect on getting over the advantage line. How many times were there small off loads to players in better positions? We kept the ball moving, we spun the ball from inside our 22 & we absorbed a lot of the Bok pressure.
I think the continual spinning of the ball was a tactic to negate the bomb squad. Hear me out. I listened for years as Bok fans have prattled on about how they have the two best front rows in the world. A 40 minute player is not, under any circumstance, a world class front rower. By us continually keeping the game moving, the large SA front row was stuffed after 30 minutes and 2 were subbed. This then gave us the edge as when we starting subbing ours, we were bringing on fresh legs against an (overweight) front row who had already played for 30 mins. A brilliant tactic which worked well.
Going through the positions, the outside backs were strong, Clarke's missed tackle on Am aside (btw, how good is Am!). A couple of screw ups early on had me punching the couch with a "here we go again" feeling, but they seemed to be early teething. Centres worked well, Ioane had his best game there and Havili did very well too. Certainly not perfect with some aimless passes at times, but no complaints overall. Not all agree, but I thought Mounga played a blinder with a couple of brain farts. His decisions were key to keeping that Bok front row moving around the paddock. Lots of huge punts pushing back 40 metres, followed by spinning it wide to take the next ruck 30 metres left. Smart.
Backrow were very settled and played off each either with 3 distinct roles. Frizell to run at the defence and smash tackles, Cane to be an absolute nuisance at the breakdown & Savea to be link man and go wide occasionally. It really worked. In the locks, Barrett played a superb game as did Whitelock. To not concede one try from all the Bok throws in our 22 off line outs was a huge result. Shows a huge engine room effort there. Smart & tactically savvy. Front row, cometh the hour Mr De Groot! Couple of lost scrums on second shoves, but can't reallly complain when they were 35-40 mins in against a fresh front row.
Thought the ref did a pretty good job, clear communicator and explained his calls. Block on Whitelock to reverse subsequent try after Am's break I wasn't overly comfortable with. Although I'm sure that last pass was forwards anyway. Was annoyed we got penalised when we shoved their scrum, but I'm no expert on these things. Gotta keep the game moving though. At one point a Bok front rower asked to do up his shoe lace ... then took both shoes off, completely adjusted them then back on. This stuff is bullshit. End it, now.
The Springboks really do have a good team. Am is an absolute weapon, Pollard controls a game well and they have genuine pace in the back 3. I think they may look to review the bomb squad though. For my money, Marx is arguably the best player on the planet ... it's just wrong that he doesn't start. PSTD doesn't look the player of a couple of years ago for my money either. Etzebeth is a colossus though, not many players could man handle Savea the way he did.
Great match, had it all.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
JB was rock solid at the back under the high ball and on Defence...but still not seeing a spark on attack
I did. There was an issue I thought, out wide with the positioning of the wings and it's only a start, but that was the first time I have seen Reiko look consistently dangerous at 13 at Test level. Havili was really solid which gave a good foundation and Ritchie cut down on the miracle-play stuff we see from BB.
I am firming in the camp of i'd just love to see
11 Clark
12 JB
13 RI
14 Reece
15 Jordan
Just to see how it would workI don't think we have that luxury. Conrad's opinions are valuable and he thought DH & RI were coming along nicely so Foster will stick with them - we all keep out fingers crossed he's right.
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Well done the AB's. A convincing and deserved win on the day. Thought you brought considerably more intensity than a surprisingly lacklustre Bok team. Basically the Boks took 20+ minutes to realize they actually needed to front up a bit. By that time the AB's had their tails up and it was always going to be a tough ask for them from there given the confidence and momentum the AB's had by then.
Just goes to show - and I believe I have been consistent in saying this - the All Blacks are not as poor as some made out last week. Sure, there are some areas to work on, but this is not a rubbish team, nor that poorly coached. I actually thought the AB's unlocked the rush defence particularly well on Saturday. They had clearly learnt from last week, adapted, and put in place a good plan. Coaching
In the final analysis, the AB's have come out on top in this mini-tour having gained a bonus point on Saturday. Not too shabby at all.
[EDIT: I'm a dinosaur idiot. Bonus point rules have changed. Still a 1-1 away isn't bad at all]For the Boks, I am putting this one down as a bad day at the office. They will bounce back.
Hopefully, we have also gained some good insights on some key personnel - who is absolutely needed, and who absolutely need some more work before they are truly ready. -
@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
In the final analysis, the AB's have come out on top in this mini-tour having gained a bonus point on Saturday. Not too shabby at all.
Nah they are the bottom of the table, bonus point is only for 3 more tries than the opposition
- Puma
- Wallabies
- Boks
- Foster's ABs (another first, bottom of the RC table and there for 2 weeks running!)
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@Machpants said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Billy-Webb said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
In the final analysis, the AB's have come out on top in this mini-tour having gained a bonus point on Saturday. Not too shabby at all.
Nah they are the bottom of the table, bonus point is only for 3 more tries than the opposition
- Puma
- Wallabies
- Boks
- Foster's ABs (another first, bottom of the RC table and there for 2 weeks running!)
Eish. You're right. I will find my dunce hat and go sit in the corner..
Still, a 1-1 for away games is nothing to be upset about.
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and of our bench only 1 had a stinker!
(*and can I add well done Foster picking Finlay Christie, been a good off the bench do the basics quickly halfback IMO).
Thought bench timings were much better too (something I've been critical of in the past). -
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
and of our bench only 1 had a stinker!
Little tip.
That's the reply button on a thread, so you don't need to click reply to post 😉
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thanks
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@mantissanet said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
Congratulations to you guys for a very good win 👌🏻It was still on with 10 to go but the ABs were just that bit hungrier for it. Thought Ardie SW and Cane all played very well and our lineouts were not jobbing as normal thanks to some excellent steals. Just top notch thievery. No real complaints about reffing overall (unlike Arg v Oz🫣)and both teams gave 100% again but this time our D wasn’t as effective and we missed a lot of tackles. Also missed more last week but it was a different AB psychology this match. Am and Pollard were great I thought but we missed Faf accuracy a bit and Duane and PTSD not back to their best just yet. Really enjoyable test but obviously a bit bleak we faded those last 10-
Ta. I think the bench pack players are great for 30, so coming on at 35 meant they were running on fumes around 70 after chasing kick to our 22 then having to run back after Rieko’s touch line sprint.
See Boks coaches taking flak for starting selections.
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@TheMojoman said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chris said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Chris said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Nepia said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
I know Clarke is copping some crap for his missed tackle but it was technically a good tackle that he appeared to just slip out of. Maybe he should have gone higher or lower, but I think 9/10 on players that tackle sticks.
I'm more annoyed with Sam Whitelock's silly pass in the 22 than with that missed tackle.
if it was a technically good tackle why did he badly fall off and let the try in because it wasn't technically that good.
way to completely miss the point
The point is he missed the tackle badly.
Shit happens TBH. He had him covered, was even a good hit but just slipped off. I remember Tana doing something similar against Boks some years ago against the young Boks 13 Marius Joubert.
At the 10 sec mark.
Tana was beaten for pace and meant he was clutching at shoe laces.
In his second try, Tuitupo was caught out of position on Barry and space was created for the offload and Joubert try
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
JB was rock solid at the back under the high ball and on Defence...but still not seeing a spark on attack
I did. There was an issue I thought, out wide with the positioning of the wings and it's only a start, but that was the first time I have seen Reiko look consistently dangerous at 13 at Test level. Havili was really solid which gave a good foundation and Ritchie cut down on the miracle-play stuff we see from BB.
I am firming in the camp of i'd just love to see
11 Clark
12 JB
13 RI
14 Reece
15 Jordan
Just to see how it would workI don't think we have that luxury. Conrad's opinions are valuable and he thought DH & RI were coming along nicely so Foster will stick with them - we all keep out fingers crossed he's right.
I just mean I don’t feel he pops up into the line to make the break as much as previous 15s, he seem to bring it to the line and then feed others more and maybe we just need to play like that
And yeah, I don’t think we have the luxury either…just a pipe dream, just because I feel Jordan would be better choosing where to join the line rather than being on the end of it and if my feel about jb is correct ( might not be) in that he might create more than finish might work very well inside RI
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@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@Kiwiwomble said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
JB was rock solid at the back under the high ball and on Defence...but still not seeing a spark on attack
I did. There was an issue I thought, out wide with the positioning of the wings and it's only a start, but that was the first time I have seen Reiko look consistently dangerous at 13 at Test level. Havili was really solid which gave a good foundation and Ritchie cut down on the miracle-play stuff we see from BB.
I am firming in the camp of i'd just love to see
11 Clark
12 JB
13 RI
14 Reece
15 Jordan
Just to see how it would workI don't think we have that luxury. Conrad's opinions are valuable and he thought DH & RI were coming along nicely so Foster will stick with them - we all keep out fingers crossed he's right.
I just mean I don’t feel he pops up into the line to make the break as much as previous 15s, he seem to bring it to the line and then feed others more and maybe we just need to play like that
And yeah, I don’t think we have the luxury either…just a pipe dream, just because I feel Jordan would be better choosing where to join the line rather than being on the end of it and if my feel about jb is correct ( might not be) in that he might create more than finish might work very well inside RI
Good point re Jordie. There's certainly minimal risk in putting Reece at 14 (along with Bower he was one of the stand-outs against Ireland) and WJ at 15 so worth a try. With JB on the bench we'd have enough to cover the back 3 positions
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@MajorRage said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
This is a really good highlights package. Shows more than just the scoring, but all the lead in to all the tries as well as a couple of moves which didn't get points.
Initially I thought it was just one of those rare things but did Am push his left arm forward and Clarke's arm pushed back to hold it back, then suddenly Am drew his left arm back so Clarke's backwards pushing arm meant he fell behind AM? If that happened and done deliberately, very skilful IMO.
