Springboks v All Blacks I
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@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
G'day @BartMan,
This time last year we thought all they had to offer was a kicking game and we thought we'd smash seven shades of shit out of them.
As it turned out, they had quite a bit more to use and we shared two close games (1-1), with our current coaching group.
Home advantage will help them a bit, but I'm with Pakman. I reckon we've got a good chance of winning at least one.
If this happens, it will be after a convincing loss in the first test, a raft of Bokke changes for the second test, and us finding our arsey counter attacking mojo to feed off their reserves' mistakes
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I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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Select tight five of Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Scooter/Big Sam; and
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Dust off Saders play book.
Would expect a much more cohesive tight performance!
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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Select tight five of Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Scooter/Big Sam; and
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Dust off Saders play book.
Would expect a much more cohesive tight performance!
Except that Taylor is playing like shit.
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@pakman He is now coaching the ABs. Not Canterbury. He needs to leave his bias at the door and work with the best in the country first (I know debatable). And as Kirwan says Taylor should not be starting anyway.
Remember the Chiefs forwards did pretty well against the Crusaders except for lapses in composure. The ABs would not be served well by a Canterbury starting tight five. It’s a step up from Super Rugby.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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Select tight five of Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Scooter/Big Sam; and
-
Dust off Saders play book.
Would expect a much more cohesive tight performance!
They got up for the final, but that pack got dusted up by the Chiefs in the semi. Consistent forward dominance by the Crusaders ain't happening like it used to.
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman He is now coaching the ABs. Not Canterbury. He needs to leave his bias at the door and work with the best in the country first (I know debatable). And as Kirwan says Taylor should not be starting anyway.
Remember the Chiefs forwards did pretty well against the Crusaders except for lapses in composure. The ABs would not be served well by a Canterbury starting tight five. It’s a step up from Super Rugby.
chiefs forward dominated in that game. backs not so much
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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Select tight five of Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Scooter/Big Sam; and
-
Dust off Saders play book.
Would expect a much more cohesive tight performance!
They got up for the final, but that pack got dusted up by the Chiefs in the semi. Consistent forward dominance by the Crusaders ain't happening like it used to.
Fair comment, although Big Sam wasn’t playing.
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@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman He is now coaching the ABs. Not Canterbury. He needs to leave his bias at the door and work with the best in the country first (I know debatable). And as Kirwan says Taylor should not be starting anyway.
Remember the Chiefs forwards did pretty well against the Crusaders except for lapses in composure. The ABs would not be served well by a Canterbury starting tight five. It’s a step up from Super Rugby.
The entire Chiefs tight five is available!
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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Select tight five of Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Scooter/Big Sam; and
-
Dust off Saders play book.
Would expect a much more cohesive tight performance!
They got up for the final, but that pack got dusted up by the Chiefs in the semi. Consistent forward dominance by the Crusaders ain't happening like it used to.
Agree the Sader's pack isn't what it used to be, but to say they got dominated/dusted up is stretching things a bit. Chiefs would have won otherwise, because as the fat kids like to remind us, games are won and lost up front.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
We'll see how good Mr Ryan is, everything he's touched has turned to trophies so far in his career.
Fingers crossed, but that would mean Foster stays, it's a double edged sword. Failure and Fozzy goes, which is good, success and he stays,which delays the inevitable continued decline.
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Select tight five of Bower/Taylor/Nepo/Scooter/Big Sam; and
-
Dust off Saders play book.
Would expect a much more cohesive tight performance!
It's more the aims and shape of the whole pack that is more important than set-piece in a short period IMO. My suspicion is that the forwards as a complete group have not been having their roles well explained. The loose forwards in particular seem to be playing very vaguely without organised impact and the FR/Locks/Loose are all acting under separate instructions. An example would be that BBBR was obviously tasked with the (old hat) midfield forward carrier role but there was often no immediate ruck clearer or phase plan after that carry. It looked to be 'once near the tackle, once in the midfield then play what's in front of you with options everywhere'. Whoever is closest does the job.
I think Ryan may bring a few more phases in or at least simplify who is expected where and when. -
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@broughie said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@pakman He is now coaching the ABs. Not Canterbury. He needs to leave his bias at the door and work with the best in the country first (I know debatable). And as Kirwan says Taylor should not be starting anyway.
Remember the Chiefs forwards did pretty well against the Crusaders except for lapses in composure. The ABs would not be served well by a Canterbury starting tight five. It’s a step up from Super Rugby.
The entire Chiefs tight five is available!
Your point is?
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@BartMan said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
I wonder if 2 weeks-ish are going to be enough time for the All Blacks to turn their forwards into a cohesive unit of destruction and mayhem.
I doubt it.
The first week will probably be filling forms, induction courses and Health and Safety briefings!
Even if it's not - I doubt it.
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@pakman said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
At the risk of upsetting the approved Fern narrative, I'll be very surprised if ABs don't win at least one of Bok tests.
They won't be able to emulate Irish structures, and we know how to play them.
IMO the best the AB’s can hope for is to split the series. I can’t see them winning both against Boks at home. The Boks have a settled squad barring Kolbe’s injury and playing at home. It’s all in their favour plus their rush defence & ultra physicality troubled the AB’s in both tests last year.
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@TheMojoman Standing up to their physicality will be key.
But, if we can do that I'm optimistic we can win at least one. It's only 12 months ago we on the fern were pretty confident of dispatching them - and they'd been beaten by the Aussies.
I don't think we need to be too much doom and gloom - the Boks have their own problems.
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@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@TheMojoman Standing up to their physicality will be key.
I may be confused as to whether this happened in the Hansen or Foster era but we tried one test with an obvious plan to tackle the big boks low and bring them straight to ground. It seemed to work really well and threw their close in recycling out as the support clearing player was expecting to latch and drive. Strangely we shelved it and I thought that was to put the idea aside to bring out again when needed.
It stopped quite a bit of momentum and had them having to adjust.
Basically trying to take these guys on around the chest in effective and tiring. -
@Crucial yeah, AB's seem really impatient, both in their higher training and squad selection right down to in game decision making.....even plays/strategies/players that do ok...show promise...if they arent perfect they get put aside
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@Crucial said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@TheMojoman Standing up to their physicality will be key.
I may be confused as to whether this happened in the Hansen or Foster era but we tried one test with an obvious plan to tackle the big boks low and bring them straight to ground.
I would be stoked if World Rugby actually incentivised this. Right now the risk is offloads, particularly off the ground. Professionalism has changed the mindset from 'take their legs out' to 'physically dominate the upper body and wrap to prevent offloads'. Done well, a low tackle is a thing of beauty.
If we see innovation in attack and defence we will be delighted, right?
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@Chris-B said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@TheMojoman Standing up to their physicality will be key.
But, if we can do that I'm optimistic we can win at least one. It's only 12 months ago we on the fern were pretty confident of dispatching them - and they'd been beaten by the Aussies.
I don't think we need to be too much doom and gloom - the Boks have their own problems.
Is that optimistic? To be honest, I wouldn't be surprised if the boks wheel out all their older slower players..let NZ have the win.. who really wins if it makes Foster look good and keeps him for the RWC?
I don't believe any of the new coaching changes will have any time to make any real impression, so if we do win its more down to luck and as usual some individual skill from somewhere.
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@nzzp said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
changed the mindset from 'take their legs out' to 'physically dominate the upper body and wrap to prevent offloads'
and what is the other issue that has caused...
If they remove the ability to pass off the ground fullstop, it would hoppefully help lower the target, as it is, a ribs/chest high tackle can slip up, or opponent slips, dips and you collect thier head...
