Springboks v All Blacks I
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@chimoaus if he has no running game, or doesnt have the ability to take the running option when it is there (are we even creating these) then it leaves pass or kick, makes it easier for the opposition to defend, especially when you look at field position, it often rules out the kick option, so you know he will pass, its just whether it is to the 1st man or the 3rd man, but either way, easy to pick off
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'As a halfback, it is pretty noticeable': Aaron Smith on All Blacks' breakdown issues
The breakdown was an area that plagued the All Blacks at home against Ireland at times and has been a key work-on for Ian Foster's team.
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@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
What do we make of A Smith at the moment? Still the world's best 9 or is it the poor performing forwards making him look out of form? He just seems to be missing that spark?
He hasn’t been the worlds best halfback for a while (Dupont)
I think he’s half a yard slower than he used to be. That makes the breakdowns last a beat longer.
Christie looked good when he came on. He makes slightly more errors but he is so fast at getting to each breakdown and that gives the defence less time to set and disrupt
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@mariner4life bang on. All 3 posts. This feels like the logical end point of your 1st round win in 2019. A team reliant on sensational individual moments from its outside backs.
You got two solid forward carries both in the first half. One from a prop early on and one from Scott Barrett who had his best game in black that I can remember. But both him and this iteration of Cane are just short of test quality. ST and Ardie were class.
From an outside perspective, I can’t see what Akira offers. But whatever it is, it isn’t enough to overcome the lack of balance in your loose trio.
Thoroughly enjoyed Cole’s work. Hands like two bags of limp dicks. Havilli an answer to a question no one’s asking. And Jordan won’t want to watch that tape ever again.
Thought the red-headed stepchild went well though.
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@Smuts agreed on all points
I said after that 2019 game we lost everywhere but 5 brilliant minutes. We can't find those minutes any more, so all that's left is the losing.
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@chimoaus if he has no running game, or doesnt have the ability to take the running option when it is there (are we even creating these) then it leaves pass or kick, makes it easier for the opposition to defend, especially when you look at field position, it often rules out the kick option, so you know he will pass, its just whether it is to the 1st man or the 3rd man, but either way, easy to pick off
Only three all Blacks had zero runs, Lomax, Smith, and Christie. That's just dumb rugby, if you never run at 9 that takes a lot of pressure off the defenders. This is obviously a tactical coaching decision, and(like most of Foster's crap) totally ineffective
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@No-Quarter I just watching through the game again and I think you are being a little tricky with the truth. For example in the 20-30 minute period Beaudie received the ball as 1st receiver at either set piece or phase play only 3 times. Plenty of other players getting it at first receiver.
Beaudie is either in the second line or out the back during that period also.
He did some good things but he made some poor errors last night even with good ball. This is not even about pushing Mo’unga or any other player, but Beaudie hasn’t looked in control for a while and it sucks because he’s been a great player to watch. Ever since he was a rookie he’s been a high risk high reward player, but he learned to do that with control and and patience. He hasn’t played with control for a while now.
Dare we say it - ever since he went to Japan.
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@mariner4life and as most keep saying, it seems looking for those moments is part of the game plan, so when we cant find them, we currently sit 1 win from 4 games in 2022.
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It occurred to me that the Boks loose forwards do play different to ours. They almost appear to play 3 tight 6's if that makes sense. Very little flashy wide stuff but they all work very hard at the breakdown on both attack and defence. So they have 8 players all hitting rucks very hard and rushing hard on D. If I were to ask how many times they make the highlight reels it is pretty low but they are clearly a very effective unit.
They don't have an out an out jackler instead favouring size and bulk. Marx was far and away the most effective for turnovers, it seems a low centre of gravity and strength are keys for turnover penalties now and not necessarily speed to the ruck etc.
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@voodoo said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Tough to win a test in SA when S Barrett is one of your best players on the night
Hey you hater, you leave Scooter alone. 😉
No cards, no head high “absorb” tackles, and only gave away one penalty for an offside which looked marginal at best when he charged down that box kick.
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@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@voodoo said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Tough to win a test in SA when S Barrett is one of your best players on the night
Hey you hater, you leave Scooter alone. 😉
No cards, no head high “absorb” tackles, and only gave away one penalty for an offside which looked marginal at best when he charged down that box kick.
I thought he was really good. Direct, and played with pace and power. But he's always going to be a bit limited right?
I really wish we would give Sotutu a run at 8 with Akira at 6 and any of Paps/Cane/Savea at 7.
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@voodoo said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@ACT-Crusader said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
@voodoo said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
Tough to win a test in SA when S Barrett is one of your best players on the night
Hey you hater, you leave Scooter alone. 😉
No cards, no head high “absorb” tackles, and only gave away one penalty for an offside which looked marginal at best when he charged down that box kick.
I thought he was really good. Direct, and played with pace and power. But he's always going to be a bit limited right?
I really wish we would give Sotutu a run at 8 with Akira at 6 and any of Paps/Cane/Savea at 7.
Who’s that?
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Aside from the All Blacks’ ‘coaching’ and management issues, you have to wonder how much of their current plight is down to Super Rugby and their lack of exposure to the South African/NH more physical style of play. Players who were supremely dominant a couple of months ago steamrolling the Force or the Rebels or the Pacific Islands teams suddenly look like schoolboys.
Is it the wrong players in the wrong positions for test rugby? Is it differences in how the game is played at international level? Is it how the breakdown is officiated? Is it purely that New Zealand’s development program is now inferior to those in the NH and is breeding too many would-be Sevens players not built for the collisions game that international test rugby has become? Or is it all of the above?
I strongly suspect the relative isolation of NZ through COVID compounded the poor coaching choices and the mismanagement of the NZR. But instead of adapting and admitting there is a paucity of ideas at home and making necessary and radical change, the NZ authorities arrogantly dig in. In the meantime, the poor players are left to intone Gilbert Enoka’s ritual and now stale lines about ‘walking toward the pressure’ and ‘embracing the opportunity’.
Something is fundamentally broken in NZ rugby.
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Oh, oh.... I think this means we would clearly struggle to win against Wales.
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@chimoaus said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
It occurred to me that the Boks loose forwards do play different to ours. They almost appear to play 3 tight 6's if that makes sense. Very little flashy wide stuff but they all work very hard at the breakdown on both attack and defence. So they have 8 players all hitting rucks very hard and rushing hard on D. If I were to ask how many times they make the highlight reels it is pretty low but they are clearly a very effective unit.
They don't have an out an out jackler instead favouring size and bulk. Marx was far and away the most effective for turnovers, it seems a low centre of gravity and strength are keys for turnover penalties now and not necessarily speed to the ruck etc.
That extra size does come at a cost, because when the game does speed up the Boks do fall off more tackles and there are opportunities in behind their line. We saw it last night and the Boks missed more than double the number of tackles that the ABs did and the overall. tackle count wasn’t that different between the teams.
Problem is that we turned the ball over or gave away a penalty far too often. Add in lack of territory and we didn’t capitalise.
So a cost they are willing to make and it paid off well for them last night.
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Not sure if I have the stomach to read the thread today.
TBH, we were just well beaten but despite that I don't think we can single out players for bad games as everyone seemed to be trying but nothing is going our way these days. We're losing the 50/50 calls every time which means we're not applying enough consistent pressure.
One thing I will say is I know we're supposed to be in a Marx love-in at the moment, but, he doesn't support himself for a large % of the turnovers he wins. I'm unsure why he gets so much leeway? I assume if you have a reputation as a turnover winner then the refs just think you're doing legally all the time.
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@mariner4life said in Springboks v All Blacks I:
For us.
Credit to the defence which was hugely improved, and the first half forward pack that actually matched them I thought. Yes they had slight advantages in their strength areas, but we did well elsewhere, and I was impressed we were holding. At half time considering the way the game played out I thought we were probably pretty happy with the score
But the entire backline should not be able to look their forwards in the face. Just absolute shit. Smashed in the kicking game and the catching game. As threatening as teen pop sensation in attack. No where to be seen when support was needed. And big errors at bad times.
BBarrett is playing shit. How the fuck does a dead loss like D Havili not only get picked, but guaranteed 80 minutes? Why can't we put up contestable kicks? Why can't we catch? Just rubbish
Then the bench? Fuck Dane Coles. Error. 2 lost lineouts. Frizzell scores a try but ends up net zero points.
The only time our attack looked threatening was in the first half when the fancy short passes were going nowhere so SBarrett said "fuck it" and just smashed on to the ball. Everyone followed and we suddenly looked dangerous. Oh wait, the 3 inside balls we threw all game worked too.
We can't apply pressure because we can't kick. We can't catch. And we can't keep thr ball because we don't make ground.
100% agree with this. Our backline is built around counter attack rugby - trouble is everyone has caught up and we need to win territory and possession game now, but seem unwilling to implement tactics and choose players to do this. Blues vs Crusaders in the Super Final. Daylight between those teams in terms of tactics. Our kicking game is terrible, but looked so much better when Mounga was on. Not sure what game other posters where watching.
The other main issue is we seem to be fixated on trying to beat the rush defence on the outside. Some hard straight carries trying to find some weak shoulders. Too much lateral movement prior to contact just makes it hard for cleaners. Get the halfback moving with some straight running loose forwards.
