All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
Jesus. I said he was one-dimensional, and never said anything about McCaw. This is what I'm talking about, any praise of Pocock gets turned into 'no way, McCaw is way better'. Yeah overall of course he was, but that has nothing to do with turning ball over being important.
It's just an example of how different skills in a team of players can work. If you had Kaino's tackling and Read's running and those two great locks, then you could afford a dedicated turnover specialist and it would be effective. If you've got lightweight Hooper and 3 nobodies as the other components, then not so much. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
Jesus. I said he was one-dimensional, and never said anything about McCaw. This is what I'm talking about, any praise of Pocock gets turned into 'no way, McCaw is way better'. Yeah overall of course he was, but that has nothing to do with turning ball over being important.
The point as you acknowledged was turnovers are now won by everyone - players that actually bring other skills to the table.
It's just an example of how different skills in a team of players can work. If you had Kaino's tackling and Read's running and those two great locks, then you could afford a dedicated turnover specialist and it would be effective.
Not as effective as a McCaw and in the last RWC era, not as effective as another punishing defender. There are less and less gaps unless you are meek in defence.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
Dillon hunt was a bit of a loss in my mind
I think you can have a pilferer and still acknowledge everyone should be able to get a turn over
if you have someone whos primary role on defence is to look for them then thats the first step in having some structure
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The method for dealing with teams that have a dedicated pilferer is pretty standard now, run at them and make them the tackler. I can't see us being more than adequate if we decide to go down that road - we are much better served by having the ability to jackal in all of the team and a few guys (hooker, one lock, all loosies, at least one midfielder) who are really good over the ball.
Right now, that's probably the issue, Taylor looks like he doesn't want to be there, none of our props seem to have that capability, BBBR hasn't been able to get over the ball, Ardie seems to only do it once he gets his go juice (usually in the 3rd quarter), and neither of our midfielders are strong. Reece can do a job on the wing, but it's not a strength.
Second to that is that it doesn't seem to be a target of our defense system either. They appear to have a set of criteria under which they attack the ball and most breakdowns don't appears meet that criteria (no idea what that criteria is BTW).
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@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@antipodean said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The role of the openside has changed as they aren't getting as many breakdown turnovers now, or any more frequently than any other player.
For that you can blame the GOAT. He was so good WR changed the law. Then Pocockwomble turned being second to the breakdown into an art form. Defences got so good that that little trick isn't worth carrying a limited player.
That goes for passive tacklers who give up ground to try and stay on their feet to be the first on the ball.
In my opinion we're at a point where the team is better off denying territory with punishing defence.
Nah, this is just what we told ourselves when the Aussies had someone who was really good at it and we didn't. All sorts of bullshit about how it wasn't important, and how we could do it too if we wanted to, but were busy doing more important things.
Pocock was one-dimensional sure, but that doesn't mean that what he was really good at wasn't a really fucking useful skill to have. Beirne showed the importance of it last week. And he can do other things too - it's not like being able to get on the ball means a player doesn't have any other skills.So not a one trick pony then?
Even the one-dimensional Pocock would have been an amazing asset if paired with Whitelock, Retallick, Kaino, Read.
At the expense of McCaw? Are you Australian?
As for our defence, it's not punishing. So we're passive and not looking for turnovers. Woo-hoo.
Yes, that's been my point.
Jesus. I said he was one-dimensional, and never said anything about McCaw. This is what I'm talking about, any praise of Pocock gets turned into 'no way, McCaw is way better'. Yeah overall of course he was, but that has nothing to do with turning ball over being important.
The point as you acknowledged was turnovers are now won by everyone - players that actually bring other skills to the table.
It's just an example of how different skills in a team of players can work. If you had Kaino's tackling and Read's running and those two great locks, then you could afford a dedicated turnover specialist and it would be effective.
Not as effective as a McCaw and in the last RWC era, not as effective as another punishing defender. There are less and less gaps unless you are meek in defence.
McCaw has nothing to do with it. We don't have McCaw anymore. If we aren't picking anyone who isn't as effective as him, then it's a team of zero.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The method for dealing with teams that have a dedicated pilferer is pretty standard now, run at them and make them the tackler. I can't see us being more than adequate if we decide to go down that road - we are much better served by having the ability to jackal in all of the team and a few guys (hooker, one lock, all loosies, at least one midfielder) who are really good over the ball.
Right now, that's probably the issue, Taylor looks like he doesn't want to be there, none of our props seem to have that capability, BBBR hasn't been able to get over the ball, Ardie seems to only do it once he gets his go juice (usually in the 3rd quarter), and neither of our midfielders are strong. Reece can do a job on the wing, but it's not a strength.
Second to that is that it doesn't seem to be a target of our defense system either. They appear to have a set of criteria under which they attack the ball and most breakdowns don't appears meet that criteria (no idea what that criteria is BTW).
as i said...cant you have both...and if we know how theyre going to deal with the jackler, by running at him, cant we then prepare...yes...he might not get the turnover...but we've made them play a certain way
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@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Is there going to be a team announcement today?
Is there going to be any announcement?
Nah it's been pushed back due to medicals etc (at least that's the official reason).
only minor changes are expected when the 36-man group is named. Just when that is remains unclear, given New Zealand Rugby (NZR) pushed back plans to name the squad on Wednesday while they await medical updates on a few players. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Is there going to be a team announcement today?
Is there going to be any announcement?
Nah it's been pushed back due to medicals etc (at least that's the official reason).
only minor changes are expected when the 36-man group is named. Just when that is remains unclear, given New Zealand Rugby (NZR) pushed back plans to name the squad on Wednesday while they await medical updates on a few players.lol fucking bullshit. they are keeping their heads right the fuck down and hoping people have chilled out before someone reappears.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Is there going to be a team announcement today?
Is there going to be any announcement?
Nah it's been pushed back due to medicals etc (at least that's the official reason).
only minor changes are expected when the 36-man group is named. Just when that is remains unclear, given New Zealand Rugby (NZR) pushed back plans to name the squad on Wednesday while they await medical updates on a few players.The thing is that is exactly what they would say if they were still talking about who the coach is going to be.
It's all just bullshit at the moment. You can't take anything anyone says seriously until there is some actual announcement.
That goes for these journalists who are "reporting" that Foster will stay or Schmidt will be doing XYZ. It's just rank speculation. Nobody knows anything and everyone is talking out of their ass. PIDOOMA for short.
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@Damo “otherwise known as toilet fishing” or for our under 25 audience that’s 🚽🎣
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@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Is there going to be a team announcement today?
Is there going to be any announcement?
All called off cos the world is to scary. Abs will play the test vs boks on Rugby 22 on Xbox to avoid mental health issues. There will obviously be no VoIP cos the boks might say scary things.
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@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Is there going to be a team announcement today?
Is there going to be any announcement?
Nah it's been pushed back due to medicals etc (at least that's the official reason).
only minor changes are expected when the 36-man group is named. Just when that is remains unclear, given New Zealand Rugby (NZR) pushed back plans to name the squad on Wednesday while they await medical updates on a few players.Haha that’s hilarious.
In the past when a player or players have been under a cloud they have just named them and said another player has come in as cover.
I’m predicting a late Friday afternoon presser so as to avoid the nightly news cycle.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Is there going to be a team announcement today?
Is there going to be any announcement?
Nah it's been pushed back due to medicals etc (at least that's the official reason).
only minor changes are expected when the 36-man group is named. Just when that is remains unclear, given New Zealand Rugby (NZR) pushed back plans to name the squad on Wednesday while they await medical updates on a few players.Haha that’s hilarious.
In the past when a player or players have been under a cloud they have just named them and said another player has come in as cover.
I’m predicting a late Friday afternoon presser so as to avoid the nightly news cycle.
Yep running for the Hills the gutless piston wristed gibbons.
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@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The squad assembles in Wellington on Monday so I am sure that the players know who is going to SA, or not.
With this management lot probably they don't know.
A few txts on Monday morning where are you the plane is leaving in 5 min. -
@Chris said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
The squad assembles in Wellington on Monday so I am sure that the players know who is going to SA, or not.
With this management lot probably they don't know.
A few txts on Monday morning where are you the plane is leaving in 5 min.I dunno once you're in Foster's squad it's hard to get kicked out. So it'll be the same 34/36 placyers with replacements for Brodie and Karl.
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