Foster, Robertson etc
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@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Sorry I can't agree with that,His recruitment was very bad though that period the depth was weak due to no vision/Selecting journeyman who were not contributing very much.
He also lost the AB's in the squad who didn't really take to his coaching.It was the way we played as well some strange game plans in place during his coaching.
I think it was mess during Blackadder's coaching time.IIRC he had a superior squad than most of Razor's
The top 25/26 yes no thanks to Blackadder they were in the system already,but we had some shit 3rd stringers selected who just were not up to it he was terrible at talent spotting.
I got dizzy during that period watching our players go from one sideline to the other and not going forward very often due to old no vision game plans. -
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Maybe, but he didn't win a title with the most deep Super squads ever, namely - 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014, 2015.
Nadolo, Fruean, Slade, Tom Taylor, Blyeendaal, McCaw, Carter, Flynn, Bird, Laulala, 2 Whitelocks, among those who left after 2015.
2011 final 18/23 of Crusader's lineup were internationals, Marshall was only player in the starting 15 who wasn't an All Black.
2014 final was even more, 21/23 players named in final, only Jimmy Tupou & Ben Funnell on the bench weren't ever capped internationally.
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@kiwi_expat all fair points and i was quite careful to point out he was missing that last little bit needed....but
every team thats ever made a final thinks they have a chance to nicking it, no matter who theyre up against, because anything can happen in a final, people play above themselves etc
all i feel is there is somewhere between "world beater" and "should never coach again" and i think the expectations for the crusaders are just a bit higher than other teams
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
im going to say it...blackadder wasn't as bad a coach as some would have you believe, still had over 60% win record, runners up twice and 4 more playoffs, yes, he was missing what was needed to win it but that 2011 final appearance was a huge achievement on the back of the earthquakes, (no real home games etc) for example
Razor definitely didn't start on the back foot, he has grown significantly but on what was already a pretty string foundation between the crusaders organisation in general and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Considering that sounds a lot like how the ABs are ATM, it is a good sign!
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Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would actually like to see Foster continue?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Just out of curiosity, is there anyone who would actually like to see Foster continue?
There are actually a fair few...
oh and
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This thread is the TSF equivalent of Burn After Reading ... Just not so witty.
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@Machpants at least 2 of those coaches won't be continuing after 2023.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants at least 2 of those coaches won't be continuing after 2023.
Killjoy
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Haha, not exactly champion, they finished 7th in the two seasons before Robertson took over.
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@Asterik6 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
and a pretty healthy team (if not champion) under blackadder
Haha, not exactly champion, they finished 7th in the two seasons before
RobertsonRobertson's Assistants took over.I've fixed it for you, but if you read up the thread, Head Coaches don't have any impact on success and just are just a front for successful Assistants.
Oh hang on, that only works when Robertson isn't Head Coach....
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Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
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Don't know where else to post this:
'Time is right' - All Blacks mental guru Enoka leaving after RWC
Enoka has been with the side for 23 years and is the longest-serving member of team management, having been involved in 291 Tests including five World Cups.
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@Stargazer said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Don't know where else to post this:
Enoka has been with the side for 23 years and is the longest-serving member of team management, having been involved in 291 Tests including five World Cups.
Great servant. Got Richie and Co over the hump in 2011
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@canefan heard him speak last October, outstanding, a guy at my table said it was the 3rd time he had heard him speak, and each time, different, but equally excellent.
Said Wayne Smith, Richie among others as having a big influence on him too.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Gifford backing a Crusader. Colour me shocked.
Would be like Kirwan backing a Blue.
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators. -
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.Schmidt not mentioned as he is not running for coach, so why would you mention him? He's irrelevant
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@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Machpants said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Phil Gifford: Why I'm backing Razor as next All Blacks coach
The only coach I’ve met who burned with the same fervour as Robertson was Fred Allen.
I agree
Not having read past the paywall, does his hypothesis downgrade the valuing of Joe Schmidt? Seems to me to have been more of an organizer and taskmaster with Ireland than an outright innovative strategist?
Having spent several weeks pondering great, good, average, and just not very good All Blacks coaches, it became clear the best coaches were the innovators.Schmidt not mentioned as he is not running for coach, so why would you mention him? He's irrelevant
I'm sorry, I'm a bit off topic. Not meaning in terms of AB coach, just interested in whether his analysis is correct, that the best coaches are always innovators.
Seems intuitive, but sometimes people who carry on what is working well or who teaches basics and bring them back to a more unified game plan may be worth considering as coaches.
Might not seem relevant to ABS in the past, when usually other teams are trying to catch up but now it seems to me we are playing catch up AND seem to have lost some shine and robustness around basic skills.
So long story short, not sure looking at past AB coaching success is guaranteed 100% relevant here.
Innovation is good, but sometimes so is solid, robust discipline when the team is on the slide...
2011 Super Rugby final - Wikipedia
