Foster, Robertson etc
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@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Drua v Crusaders:
@Yeahtheboys said in Drua v Crusaders:
Is Scott Robertson still the best coach thats ever been?
Maybe winning with the most stacked squad in history DOESNT mean youre the best coach...
If he can take a squad like this and do something then he may be in the picture for the AB's, have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
He took Blackadder's squad who weren't capable of winning super rugby and who had lost experienced ABs ... and I think many posters would agree made it better.
Also a lot of Crusaders have become Ab's during Razor's time as coach,They were not all AB's from somewhere else.
A large number have won titles under Razor and under Foster well FFS there is the difference.Huge influence of the Saders / Ta$man influence during that time. I think I count 15/49 new ABs from Saders country and that overall much of the credit should go to the organization. I think 5 of them are through Ta$man/academy rather than Canterbury/academy, indicating it is much more than Razor finishing the job.
Mo’unga is the best example of your argument alongside Goodhue, Bridge, and more recently Grace and Newell.
However, they recruited Bower and Reece. Whether they would have gone further elsewhere is an interesting question.
From my perspective, I think it is more about the quality of the recruitment/development in the backs, and the quality of the squad overall - players like Hall were really fantastic at the Super level and the Saders often had two players who could interchange (eg, Hall, Drummond).
I’m not trying to take away from Razor’s achievements but I’m not convinced he needs that much credit for making these guys ABs. Firstly, it appears to be much more than the coach but rather the organization itself. Secondly, success helps recruitment and helps players get a better chance of making the next level.
Agreed but Razor drives those recruitment and Academy programmes and is at the fore front of Recruitment which is another strong string to his bow.
Not just a coach but a great identifier of Talent and putting the finishing touches to make them AB's.Some credit due there.is there anything he carnt do?
Beat the Drua?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Drua v Crusaders:
@Yeahtheboys said in Drua v Crusaders:
Is Scott Robertson still the best coach thats ever been?
Maybe winning with the most stacked squad in history DOESNT mean youre the best coach...
If he can take a squad like this and do something then he may be in the picture for the AB's, have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
He took Blackadder's squad who weren't capable of winning super rugby and who had lost experienced ABs ... and I think many posters would agree made it better.
Also a lot of Crusaders have become Ab's during Razor's time as coach,They were not all AB's from somewhere else.
A large number have won titles under Razor and under Foster well FFS there is the difference.Huge influence of the Saders / Ta$man influence during that time. I think I count 15/49 new ABs from Saders country and that overall much of the credit should go to the organization. I think 5 of them are through Ta$man/academy rather than Canterbury/academy, indicating it is much more than Razor finishing the job.
Mo’unga is the best example of your argument alongside Goodhue, Bridge, and more recently Grace and Newell.
However, they recruited Bower and Reece. Whether they would have gone further elsewhere is an interesting question.
From my perspective, I think it is more about the quality of the recruitment/development in the backs, and the quality of the squad overall - players like Hall were really fantastic at the Super level and the Saders often had two players who could interchange (eg, Hall, Drummond).
I’m not trying to take away from Razor’s achievements but I’m not convinced he needs that much credit for making these guys ABs. Firstly, it appears to be much more than the coach but rather the organization itself. Secondly, success helps recruitment and helps players get a better chance of making the next level.
Agreed but Razor drives those recruitment and Academy programmes and is at the fore front of Recruitment which is another strong string to his bow.
Not just a coach but a great identifier of Talent and putting the finishing touches to make them AB's.Some credit due there.is there anything he carnt do?
Beat the Drua?
Well he did that last year so he can.
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@Yeahtheboys said in Foster, Robertson etc:
have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
Um yeah, he did it with Sumner in 2007, took them from dead last in Chch 2nd Division to champions.
I would consider 2017 Crusaders underdogs, no one expected Razor to win in his 1st year with that green squad, the Hurricanes had completely dominated competition the year before and were expected to win in 2017.
Crusaders had a lot of rookies, Hall 23, Mo'unga 21, Havili 21, Goodhue 20, Drummond 21, Hunt 20, Bridge 21.
Beat a Lions team on the highveld with 13 Springboks, became
firstsecond side to win away from home. -
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
became first side to win away from home
maybe don't google 2000 Super eh
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Um yeah, he did it with Sumner in 2007, took them from dead last in Chch 2nd Division to champions.
Robertson became the head coach at Sumner Rugby Club in 2004. So it took him 4 seasons at Sumner to be successful, but you tell us he single-handedly transformed the Crusaders in one season.
He must have found it much tougher to coach a 2nd Division club side than a Super Rugby side, I guess
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@Victor-Meldrew I believe he was head coach 2006-2007, started with Sumner u19 colts 2004.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew I believe he was head coach 2006-2007, started with Sumner u19 colts 2004.
You are correct.
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I can't believe this thread is a Foster vs Robertson gunfight still.
How about dropping talk of Foster (and Schmidt) an in-depth look at Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown's coaching record and suitability as AB coaches?**On the assumption they are definitely applying.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I can't believe this thread is a Foster vs Robertson gunfight still.
How about dropping talk of Foster (and Schmidt) an in-depth look at Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown's coaching record and suitability as AB coaches?**On the assumption they are definitely applying.
According to George33 there are 5 applying.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Yeahtheboys said in Foster, Robertson etc:
have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
Um yeah, he did it with Sumner in 2006/7, took them from dead last in Chch 2nd Division to champions.
I would consider 2017 Crusaders underdogs, no one expected Razor to win in his 1st year with that green squad, the Hurricanes had completely dominated competition the year before and were expected to win in 2017.
Crusaders had a lot of rookies, Hall 23, Mo'unga 21, Havili 21, Goodhue 20, Drummond 21, Hunt 20, Bridge 21.
Beat a Lions team on the highveld with 13 Springboks, became
firstsecond side to win away from home.It was really hard for him with those rookies, with 18 current or future All blacks, and one ex-Aus international, including the starting AB front row, two of the three locks, the AB fullback, and of course the All Black captain.
Absolutely well done that man for bringing those rookies through.
Forwards:
Michael Alaalatoa
Wyatt Crockett (AB)
Oliver Jager
Joe Moody (AB)
Tim Perry (FAB)
Owen Franks (AB)Ben Funnell,
Andrew Makalio (Best backup going)
Codie Taylor (AB)Scott Barrett (AB)
Luke Romano (AB)
Quinten Strange
Sam Whitelock (AB)
Heiden Bedwell-Curtis,
Jed Brown,
Mitchell Dunshea,Kieran Read (AB)
Pete Samu,
Jordan Taufua
Matt Todd (AB)Backs:
Mitchell Drummond (FAB)
Leon Fukofuka,
Bryn Hall,Tim Bateman,
Marty McKenzie,
Richie Mo'unga (FAB),
Mitchell Hunt,Ryan Crotty (AB),
Jack Goodhue (FAB),
David Havili (FAB),
Seta Tamanivalu (AB),
Sean Wainui,George Bridge (FAB),
Israel Dagg (AB),
Sione Fifita,
Digby Ioane (AUS),
Jone Macilai,
Manasa Mataele. -
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew I believe he was head coach 2006-2007, started with Sumner u19 colts 2004.
So it only took him twice as long with a 2nd division club team than with a SR team to work his magic then. On that basis, and with that acceleration in coaching performance, you're predicting a huge turnaround in AB fortunes in less than half a season.
So if what you're telling us is true, shouldn't he be fired after one year if he doesn't achieve that?
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I can't believe this thread is a Foster vs Robertson gunfight still.
How about dropping talk of Foster (and Schmidt) an in-depth look at Jamie Joseph and Tony Brown's coaching record and suitability as AB coaches?**On the assumption they are definitely applying.
According to George33 there are 5 applying.
According to George33...I need a bit more evidence now after being promised it was Joe just a few days ago...
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Drua v Crusaders:
@Yeahtheboys said in Drua v Crusaders:
Is Scott Robertson still the best coach thats ever been?
Maybe winning with the most stacked squad in history DOESNT mean youre the best coach...
If he can take a squad like this and do something then he may be in the picture for the AB's, have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
He took Blackadder's squad who weren't capable of winning super rugby and who had lost experienced ABs ... and I think many posters would agree made it better.
Also a lot of Crusaders have become Ab's during Razor's time as coach,They were not all AB's from somewhere else.
A large number have won titles under Razor and under Foster well FFS there is the difference.Huge influence of the Saders / Ta$man influence during that time. I think I count 15/49 new ABs from Saders country and that overall much of the credit should go to the organization. I think 5 of them are through Ta$man/academy rather than Canterbury/academy, indicating it is much more than Razor finishing the job.
Mo’unga is the best example of your argument alongside Goodhue, Bridge, and more recently Grace and Newell.
However, they recruited Bower and Reece. Whether they would have gone further elsewhere is an interesting question.
From my perspective, I think it is more about the quality of the recruitment/development in the backs, and the quality of the squad overall - players like Hall were really fantastic at the Super level and the Saders often had two players who could interchange (eg, Hall, Drummond).
I’m not trying to take away from Razor’s achievements but I’m not convinced he needs that much credit for making these guys ABs. Firstly, it appears to be much more than the coach but rather the organization itself. Secondly, success helps recruitment and helps players get a better chance of making the next level.
Agreed but Razor drives those recruitment and Academy programmes and is at the fore front of Recruitment which is another strong string to his bow.
Not just a coach but a great identifier of Talent and putting the finishing touches to make them AB's.Some credit due there.is there anything he carnt do?
Beat the Drua?
Well he did that last year so he can.
Yep and being the equal of Drua is where his record will stand, funny how Foster was so bad because ABs lost to Pumas lol
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@Dan54 Cripes, the silliness of your arguments are mind-blowing. I understand the logical arguments against Razor and they are legit but bloody hell......
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@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Drua v Crusaders:
@Yeahtheboys said in Drua v Crusaders:
Is Scott Robertson still the best coach thats ever been?
Maybe winning with the most stacked squad in history DOESNT mean youre the best coach...
If he can take a squad like this and do something then he may be in the picture for the AB's, have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
He took Blackadder's squad who weren't capable of winning super rugby and who had lost experienced ABs ... and I think many posters would agree made it better.
Also a lot of Crusaders have become Ab's during Razor's time as coach,They were not all AB's from somewhere else.
A large number have won titles under Razor and under Foster well FFS there is the difference.Huge influence of the Saders / Ta$man influence during that time. I think I count 15/49 new ABs from Saders country and that overall much of the credit should go to the organization. I think 5 of them are through Ta$man/academy rather than Canterbury/academy, indicating it is much more than Razor finishing the job.
Mo’unga is the best example of your argument alongside Goodhue, Bridge, and more recently Grace and Newell.
However, they recruited Bower and Reece. Whether they would have gone further elsewhere is an interesting question.
From my perspective, I think it is more about the quality of the recruitment/development in the backs, and the quality of the squad overall - players like Hall were really fantastic at the Super level and the Saders often had two players who could interchange (eg, Hall, Drummond).
I’m not trying to take away from Razor’s achievements but I’m not convinced he needs that much credit for making these guys ABs. Firstly, it appears to be much more than the coach but rather the organization itself. Secondly, success helps recruitment and helps players get a better chance of making the next level.
Agreed but Razor drives those recruitment and Academy programmes and is at the fore front of Recruitment which is another strong string to his bow.
Not just a coach but a great identifier of Talent and putting the finishing touches to make them AB's.Some credit due there.is there anything he carnt do?
Beat the Drua?
Well he did that last year so he can.
Yep and being the equal of Drua is where his record will stand, funny how Foster was so bad because ABs lost to Pumas lol
And lost to everyone else,I wish I never replied to your silly comment to be honest.
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@Dan54 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Drua v Crusaders:
@Yeahtheboys said in Drua v Crusaders:
Is Scott Robertson still the best coach thats ever been?
Maybe winning with the most stacked squad in history DOESNT mean youre the best coach...
If he can take a squad like this and do something then he may be in the picture for the AB's, have yet to see him take an underdog team / squad and make it better.
He took Blackadder's squad who weren't capable of winning super rugby and who had lost experienced ABs ... and I think many posters would agree made it better.
Also a lot of Crusaders have become Ab's during Razor's time as coach,They were not all AB's from somewhere else.
A large number have won titles under Razor and under Foster well FFS there is the difference.Huge influence of the Saders / Ta$man influence during that time. I think I count 15/49 new ABs from Saders country and that overall much of the credit should go to the organization. I think 5 of them are through Ta$man/academy rather than Canterbury/academy, indicating it is much more than Razor finishing the job.
Mo’unga is the best example of your argument alongside Goodhue, Bridge, and more recently Grace and Newell.
However, they recruited Bower and Reece. Whether they would have gone further elsewhere is an interesting question.
From my perspective, I think it is more about the quality of the recruitment/development in the backs, and the quality of the squad overall - players like Hall were really fantastic at the Super level and the Saders often had two players who could interchange (eg, Hall, Drummond).
I’m not trying to take away from Razor’s achievements but I’m not convinced he needs that much credit for making these guys ABs. Firstly, it appears to be much more than the coach but rather the organization itself. Secondly, success helps recruitment and helps players get a better chance of making the next level.
Agreed but Razor drives those recruitment and Academy programmes and is at the fore front of Recruitment which is another strong string to his bow.
Not just a coach but a great identifier of Talent and putting the finishing touches to make them AB's.Some credit due there.is there anything he carnt do?
Beat the Drua?
Well he did that last year so he can.
Yep and being the equal of Drua is where his record will stand, funny how Foster was so bad because ABs lost to Pumas lol
Not a good comparison given Foster lost to the Pumas twice by over 7 points after naming full strength All Black teams on both occasions.
Crusaders lost by 1 point after rotating the side, not to mention injuries to 9 players & having to field 3 players from the development squad.
A rather inconsequential result within the context of 15 Rounds as they were clearly prioritizing Blues game this week and with it being played in March daytime 36c peak humidity both teams couldn't string together any continuity whatsoever making it an utterly mangled game to watch.
One of the most turgid displays of rugby I've seen, embarrassing to be scheduling so early in day in one of hottest months of the year in peak humidity, the Crusaders players looked like they weren't awakened to conditions until game was almost done.
Last year Drua didn't play any games in Fiji due to Covid until the winter months, where they lost 34-35, to what might add was a much stronger & more experienced Chiefs side than the Crusaders rolled out last weekend:
Super Rugby Pacific 2022 Round 15: Fijian Drua vs Chiefs (34 - 35)
Full match report, highlights, and analysis of the Super Rugby Pacific draw between Fijian Drua and Chiefs at Churchill Park on May 28, 2022
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
A rather inconsequential result as they were clearly prioritizing Blues match this week
Like Foster prioritised the Bledisloe last year...?
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This fůcking thread. I didn't think it was possible but it has gotten even more retarded the past few days.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
A rather inconsequential result as they were clearly prioritizing Blues match this week
Like Foster prioritised the Bledisloe last year...?
And still only managed a 55% record in 2020 despite the All Blacks being the least disrupted by the pandemic of any team.
