Foster, Robertson etc
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@KiwiMurph said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat Leon is a weird one in that he's been a head coach for quite a few seasons (Blues + Ta$man) but I think at test level would be better suited as an assistant. A bit like Holland I guess.
Completely agree. I think in the right environment, in a Razor led group Holland would be fine - Holland is better when he's not having to deal with the day-to-day responsibilities of being a head coach, he's more effective when left to concentrate solely on the 'on the grass' coaching & that's why I reckon the Hurricanes attack looked more effective between 2016-2019 as Holland was able to concentrate on running the attack & shaping the game-day strategy, while Boyd dealt with the organizational side of things, like media duties, big picture planning and man-management. Holland is a good technical coach, but not a manager so to speak.
It's all about having coaches who's skillsets are complimentary of each other. Joseph & Brown together are perfect in this regard. Jamie is the hard-nosed man manager who sets the tone/culture, while Tony is the more understated analytical mind who works in the background, I suppose like Steve Hansen and Wayne Smith.
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On the bright side were in a much better state than what we were 4 years ago with some genuine contenders for the role this time.
Schmidt, JJ and Robertson are all capable of doing the job and ironically Gatland would have been in the mix if he'd done a decent/half decent/maybe anything other than horrendous job with the Chiefs.
Literally how he could take a disparate side as any with the BI Lions to a series draw against the AB's in their own backyard to then being unable to get the Chiefs to win a single game is a coaching paradox both tragic and bemusing. Anyway I digress...
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@Windows97 seriously? the lions are a collection of the best players in 4 rugby playing nations....the chiefs are a domestic franchise that probably had a handful of AB's. add to that there was 3 years between the lions and his run at the chiefs...doesn't really seem that crazy a possibility
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Windows97 seriously? the lions are a collection of the best players in 4 rugby playing nations....the chiefs are a domestic franchise that probably had a handful of AB's. add to that there was 3 years between the lions and his run at the chiefs...doesn't really seem that crazy a possibility
I was definitely speaking more in terms of culture and not talent.
Getting the Lions to perform is historically a tough gig - yet he did it.
It appears getting the Chiefs to perform is much harder.
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Windows97 seriously? the lions are a collection of the best players in 4 rugby playing nations....the chiefs are a domestic franchise that probably had a handful of AB's. add to that there was 3 years between the lions and his run at the chiefs...doesn't really seem that crazy a possibility
I saw it more that he was so long out of NZ rugby that he didn't speak the same language.
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Windows97 seriously? the lions are a collection of the best players in 4 rugby playing nations....the chiefs are a domestic franchise that probably had a handful of AB's. add to that there was 3 years between the lions and his run at the chiefs...doesn't really seem that crazy a possibility
I saw it more that he was so long out of NZ rugby that he didn't speak the same language.
ive heard players really rated him and enjoyed being coached by hin
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@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Windows97 seriously? the lions are a collection of the best players in 4 rugby playing nations....the chiefs are a domestic franchise that probably had a handful of AB's. add to that there was 3 years between the lions and his run at the chiefs...doesn't really seem that crazy a possibility
I saw it more that he was so long out of NZ rugby that he didn't speak the same language.
ive heard players really rated him and enjoyed being coached by hin
no way that lasts if theyre losing
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Windows97 seriously? the lions are a collection of the best players in 4 rugby playing nations....the chiefs are a domestic franchise that probably had a handful of AB's. add to that there was 3 years between the lions and his run at the chiefs...doesn't really seem that crazy a possibility
I saw it more that he was so long out of NZ rugby that he didn't speak the same language.
ive heard players really rated him and enjoyed being coached by hin
no way that lasts if theyre losing
well thats what i heard at end of last season and had heard it before.but could be a rumor
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@ploughboy oh, i believe its quite possible, i only mean that wouldn't last long term if they kept losing
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@ploughboy oh, i believe its quite possible, i only mean that wouldn't last long term if they kept losing
I don't see why it wouldn't. How many games did they lose?
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@Bones you don't think a coach would lose the dressing room if they just kept loosing?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones you don't think a coach would lose the dressing room if they just kept loosing?
How many games did they lose?
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@Bones had to look it up, they lost 8 on the bounce
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bones had to look it up, they lost 8 on the bounce
That's pretty rough, probably right on the tipping point, I guess you'd be starting to go sour after 5-6, but if you really feel like you're getting something out of the coaching I can see how they might still be clinging on to like.
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@Windows97 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Literally how he could take a disparate side as any with the BI Lions to a series draw against the AB's in their own backyard
Not so much/really the case since the NH club competitions in the pro-Era has meant players are pretty used to playing with each other week in, week out.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
playing with each other week in, week out.
Well what the fuck do I know then
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Exclusive: ABs coaching saga - Ian Foster's plea to NZR over 'unnecessary burden'
Ian Foster has spoken out about NZ Rugby's pending All Blacks coaching decision.
Exclusive: Ian Fosterâs plea to New Zealand Rugby over All Blacksâ âunnecessary burdenâ
There are detectable elements of concern, sadness, frustration and disbelief in Ian Fosterâs voice as he makes his plea to New Zealand Rugby (NZR) not to disrupt the All Blacks in World Cup year by beginning the hunt for the next coach in March.
Whatâs not detectable is any hint of self-pity. Foster, who has been told that the NZR board want to have their 2024 All Blacks coaching group contracted by April, has decided to speak to the Herald about his employerâs decision because he genuinely feels itâs one which carries a high risk of unsettling players and management, and wonât benefit the teamâs ability to perform.
Self-preservation is not on his agenda. His motivation for speaking out now is not because he believes an early appointment process is the wrong thing for him but is the wrong move for the team, and he has branded it âunnecessaryâ, saying that his employer should âlet the needs of the team outweigh the needs of a fewâ.
âFor the last couple of months I have been watching this discussion about the All Blacks coaching process play out publicly,â Foster says.
âThe job that I currently hold and have currently been backed by this board to do through to the World Cup.
âAnd I have sat back and looked at a whole lot of views that have been put out there. Some have been frustrating to hear and a particular frustration is that there seems to be a focus on setting timetables based on what some preferred candidates feel is right for them versus potentially what is right for this All Blacks team.
âWe have got players pushing to be in the right shape, and then to say to some of these people - in April/May - maybe time is up, for some that will be okay and for others it might not, but that is the gamble.
âI think you weigh up the pros and cons of that and I think it is unnecessary.
âThose conversations are best had after a World Cup when everyone is clear and we have the latest data and we know where the team is at and then the board and everyone can make the decision with all the data on the table.
âIn the meantime we have got a management team and a coaching group that is fully committed to one goal, which is the World Cup and not trying to position themselves into where they fit in next yearâs regime.â
His reference to timetables that suit preferred candidates, suggests that he feels that NZR fear that if they wait to begin the process until after the World Cup, they will lose Scott Robertson and Jamie Joseph to other jobs.
But while that may have been a valid fear in November last year, most of the top-tier nations have now made long-term coaching appointments and neither Robertson nor Joseph seemingly have any genuine offers to which they would be willing to commit to ahead of the World Cup.
What Foster fears is that those not ingrained in the high-performance world will not understand the depth of impact an early re-appointment process will have.
âGoing [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my job, but it has everything to do with the whole environment and the months we are going to spend talking about who is in and who is out of the next regime. That impacts on time with which I think we have better things to do.â
Sending Foster to a World Cup as the coach his employer didnât want would also provide rivals with an easy means to belittle the All Blacks in the media.
âI believe we have a lot of strength in this group and we can overcome that,â says Foster.
âBut for me, it is an unnecessary burden that you put on your own shoulders that we donât need. Why give a sucker a chance. There is no need to do that. For me it is quite simple, let us prepare 100 per cent for this World Cup.â
Fosterâs point is essentially that NZR, having backed him to stay in the role through to the World Cup, have an opportunity to fully support him and the team by delaying the appointment process until after the World Cup, knowing that Robertson and Joseph - and possibly others - will still be available.
And thatâs a scenario - going head-to-head with the best coaches New Zealand has - that he would relish.
âMy job is to focus on what is right for the team. I love this job and I have got a highly motivated coaching group and management team that are working hard, doing everything we can to make this country proud in France,â Foster said.
âThat is our goal. We know we have to earn everyoneâs respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and Iâd like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.â
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- Players being "burdened" by the prospect of JJ or Razor coming in........ please.
- Appointing before World Cup destroys any faint hope Foster had of keeping his job. (which he was clearly harboring - delusional)
- Other countries appoint before the World Cup and we are left with whoever isn't picked up. (possibly the riff-raff)
- Suck it up Fozzie. Your ass was saved by Schimdt and Ryan when they were forced upon you.
