Foster, Robertson etc
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Nobody seemed to give a shit about John Hart's mental health after 98 and his record was much better than Foster (who is really fat btw). Same with the insane hate Steven Donald received for one kick.
Give me a million bucks a year and I'll happily cry myself to sleep at night in my bed of money.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@junior said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@PecoTrain said in Foster must go:
If we have little to no confidence in Foster developing the team, why leave him in-place to leave a mess for his successor when the chances of RWC are largely independent of the current coaching team? At worst we start to move forward again...
Genuine question. If Foster is replaced - and I think he should be - and the new coach drops more than one game in the TRC and/or loses a game on the EOYT (more than possible the way England, Wales & Scotland are playing at the moment), he will have done no better, or possibly worse, than Foster in 2021.
What do we do then? Do we sack the new coach and look for another to turn things around in time for Sept 2023?
Obviously not. The new coach’s mandate should be to come in and arrest the current slide and try get this current crop of players to the stage where they don’t embarrass themselves at the World Cup next year. Whoever comes in will have I imagine quite a bit of goodwill for volunteering to take on the difficult task of turning around this shitshow, and probably because he will have shown some coaching ability in the past so people will immediately believe he can actually turn things around (and hopefully so do the players). The damage to this team may be irreparable and impossible to turn around, but we may as well try, right?
> So if it turns out the new bloke's not a great success and doesn't do any better than Foster? What do we do then?
Don't think it's viable to just accept that level of performance, keep the new bloke in place, blame it all on Foster and effectively shrug our shoulders and say "at least we tried". Need a bit more planning than that surely.
Contract only to RWC. Only 13 + months of pain.
One plus to a coach replacement is teams in 2023 will be totally surprised.
And anyway right now the problem is more: what if the new coach is as ineffective as Foster?
IMHO there is only one NZ coach at that level not called Mark and he is the current AB coach (and his assistants). -
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster must go:
Nobody seemed to give a shit about John Hart's mental health after 98 and his record was much better than Foster (who is really fat btw). Same with the insane hate Steven Donald received for one kick.
Give me a million bucks a year and I'll happily cry myself to sleep at night in my bed of money.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
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@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
Yeah I don't want to give the wrong impression here. I don't dislike the guy - he comes across as a really nice bloke. It is my fervent wish that he's so successful that other nations give up rugby and go play table tennis instead. But it's clear to me his assistants aren't up to requirement, and he's the leader. So while you can delegate authority, you can't delegate responsibility.
These results aren't acceptable.
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@MN5 said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Well, he'd know all about that.
Situation maybe feeling a bit to familiar to him perhaps?Well it might be, but I'm not very sympathetic to it. Quite frankly I'm sick of seeing "mental health" used as a synonym for "don't critique me" for poor performances in professional settings. These aren't amateurs who stepped up to the plate because no one else would do it.
There will be MASSIVE pressure on Foster as there should be and you’re right. He could have said no to the job and he’s been paid a huge salary. On face value it is very easy to put the boot in.
……but the more empathetic side of me does feel for him a bit and how stressed, unhappy and unhealthy he looks when he fronts the media.
He just looks utterly resigned to a shit situation and bereft of ideas of how to sort it.
To be fair he could do something about the unhealthy part....
But yeah it's not like he's deliberately being shit and the pressure on him is enormous. But he's the AB coach and it comes with the territory. I'll bet he had exactly the same expectations when he was just a mere fan. And again, a million bucks a year will no doubt dull some of that pain.
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@junior said in Foster must go:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Billy-Tell said in Foster must go:
I’d accept keeping the bledisloe and not losing to wales or Scotland on end of year tour. Oh and going 2-0 vs Argentina. Can’t expect a guy to come in at short notice and not potentially lose to SA in SA.
Not good enough. We'd be treading water or going backwards compared to Foster with no guarantee things are really on the up.
Enough mediocrity - put success measures in place and have an action plan if they aren't met.
Whatever we do, we run the risk of tings getting worse. But that in itself is not a reason to do nothing to try to turn around the currently dire situation.
Of course not.
We will all have to accept that with a change in coach, things may just get worse before they get better. We may also get a dead cat bounce where things get immediately worse, but then revert to what we currently have.
Nine Tests (to the end of '22) is more than enough for a decent coach to cement progress. And we'd need to listening for alarm bells if there isn't significant improvement by the end of the RC.
All this will tell us is that things are in fact worse than perhaps we had realised and that things would have gotten worse under Foster.
That's just a ready-made get-out-of-jail for non-improvement. People with far more knowledge of the game than me are saying we have superior players and skills and there are coaches out there with a game plan, able to build confidence and with a winning track record to turn things around.
We need improvement, not a coach telling us it would have been worse under the other guy - not even Foster used that as an excuse.
I would rather we accept these risks and be proactive about trying to avoid them by appointing a new coach with a proven track record of success - whether that's Razor, Schmidt or someone else like Gatland - than continue on with the current team of coaches who have little to no success in their own right.
Totally agree. But let's stop the excuses and acceptance of mediocrity. We have the players and we put in a coach with a track recording of winning. He either get a better track record than Foster got in '21 or considers his position and NZR has a contingency plan in place.
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@Frank said in Foster must go:
@Tim said in Foster must go:
It's bad enough that this NZRU PR is passed off as "analysis" in our horrible media environment, but does the Herald really need to promote it too? At the very least it should be marked as "sponsored content".
All Black great Sir John Kirwan says now is not the time to change the All Blacks coach as pressure mounts on Ian Foster following the 2-1 series defeat to Ireland.
In an interview with Newstalk ZB's Tim Dower, Kirwan was asked if now was the time to change the coaching staff.
"Not at all. I think there's going to be some real decisions to make. They've got the Rugby Championship coming up, flying to South Africa next week. It's never been done in the history of the game [firing an All Blacks coach]. I believe Ian Foster can turn this around. Well he has to turn it around - should I say.
Title of piece:
Shit coach endorses shit coachyeah but at least Sir JK admitted he (himself as a coach) wasn't good enough and he said he sensed a disconnect just like at the Blues. He should be able to at least sense when a team isn't functioning. But what I don't get is after 10 years of Foster being Foster as he always was, Sir John thinks Foster can turn it around.
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@antipodean said in Foster must go:
“That statement from the CEO really annoys me,” Kirwan said.
“Why doesn’t Mark Robinson come out and say we’ve got faith [in Ian Foster]? The CEO needs to come out and go ‘we’ve done a review six months ago, we’re confident of turning it around, [it’s] only three test matches.’
“He’s throwing his coach under the bus, people!”
Good point JK; this isn't the epitome of national sporting excellence and by association identity for millions of people crafted well over a century, this is just an opportunity for a bloke to do his best and we should all encourage him, especially if it all gets a bit too hard to cope sometimes. What's missing is the participation ribbons for doing our best against the Irish. Who knew they'd be so good?
Fucking idiot.
If Robinson said we have faith after those two performances in the second and third test, he'd be looking for a job too.
If we care about mental health, what about mine being subjected to that?
As a side-note, the communications strategy & skills of NZR are being shown to be less than world-class, aren't they? Bloody shambles.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go:
Contract only to RWC. Only 13 + months of pain.
To the end of '22 only. Then a full review to see what the best way forward is. Maybe extend to RWC23, accept it wasn't just the coaching and plan for the next 4 years.
And anyway right now the problem is more: what if the new coach is as ineffective as Foster?
IMHO there is only one NZ coach at that level not called Mark and he is the current AB coach (and his assistants).
You may be right. In which case there's zero issue in demanding a significant improvement and giving the guy 6 or 9 Tests to prove he's better. We'd be paying more than tiddlywinks for a coach who, unlike Foster, has a proven track record of winning so there's really no excuse.
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@Unite said in Foster must go:
So 6pm in NZ and still nothing from NZR?
Their media operation is world-class though
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go:
@Unite said in Foster must go:
So 6pm in NZ and still nothing from NZR?
Their media operation is world-class though
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@Crucial said in Foster must go:
@Frank said in Foster must go:
There is basically not a single good argument for Foster staying.
Fuckin none.There might be if neither Razor or Joe want to pick up a dirty nappy.
Which does make you wonder why the likes of Jamie Joseph were a bit less than keen.
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@Unite said in Foster must go:
So 6pm in NZ and still nothing from NZR?
Not sure what you are expecting, unless they’ve changed team naming’s to Monday and no one told us.
When’s the RC squad named?
If it’s about the future of the coach, I’m certainly not expecting anything new today. In terms of media cycle today is the ‘wash up from the game’ day.
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Sir John Kirwan: How Ian Foster can keep All Blacks job
