Foster, Robertson etc
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@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Justin Marshall is absolutely scathing of Ian Foster's All Blacks.
'Damaged the jersey': Justin Marshall on the All Blacks' 2022
Marshall was adamant the legacy and status of the All Blacks jersey had suffered throughout the historically underperforming 2022 campaign.
He's not wrong. It will take a massive year next year, a RWC SF as absolute minimum to restore some of aura's lustre. And no shellacking in the SF either, narrow loss at the very least
IMO without a dominant entire season and record breaking fourth RWC victory will even start the CPR. And IMO RWC isn't everything, the damage Foster has done in the preceding years means even that and he should go.
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@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Has Meg forgotten about 1998? And he was in that AB team.
That's an unfair comparison. With video refs the ABs win both the games against SA. The 2nd loss to Aus was also very close. Considering the changing of the guard due to retirements and players being passed it, they didn't do too badly. Better than 2022 at any rate.
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@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Has Meg forgotten about 1998? And he was in that AB team.
And if we’re talking about teams that drew against Eng and should have won then we can go back to the 1997 team that he inexplicably captained.
That's actually a great trivia question. I'll bet most people have forgotten that both he and Anton Oliver had very short stints as AB captain.
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@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Has Meg forgotten about 1998? And he was in that AB team.
they were playing Macqueen's goat Wallabies side not a 9th ranked Australia.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Has Meg forgotten about 1998? And he was in that AB team.
That's an unfair comparison. With video refs the ABs win both the games against SA. The 2nd loss to Aus was also very close. Considering the changing of the guard due to retirements and played being passed it, they didn't do too badly. Better than 2022 at any rate.
Agree & Hart's ABs had lots of narrow losses, Foster has seen comprehensive (10 points or more) losses.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Has Meg forgotten about 1998? And he was in that AB team.
That's an unfair comparison. With video refs the ABs win both the games against SA. The 2nd loss to Aus was also very close. Considering the changing of the guard due to retirements and played being passed it, they didn't do too badly. Better than 2022 at any rate.
Agree & Hart's ABs had lots of narrow losses, Foster has seen comprehensive (10 points or more) losses.
That’s an unfair comparison as well. The game is different now and a small difference in performances between teams can look big on the scoreboard.
Eventually the rest of the rugby world was going to catch up. Especially with the resources some have thrown at doing so. Absolutely we have been off being the the best and should be aiming to get back to more consistency but comparing eras is like saying that Pinetree would be a lock still.
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@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Has Meg forgotten about 1998? And he was in that AB team.
That's an unfair comparison. With video refs the ABs win both the games against SA. The 2nd loss to Aus was also very close. Considering the changing of the guard due to retirements and played being passed it, they didn't do too badly. Better than 2022 at any rate.
Agree & Hart's ABs had lots of narrow losses, Foster has seen comprehensive (10 points or more) losses.
That’s an unfair comparison as well. The game is different now and a small difference in performances between teams can look big on the scoreboard.
Eventually the rest of the rugby world was going to catch up. Especially with the resources some have thrown at doing so. Absolutely we have been off being the the best and should be aiming to get back to more consistency but comparing eras is like saying that Pinetree would be a lock still.
Winning the Bledisloe cup against a weak Australian side ranked 9th in the world is nothing to celebrate, including the weakened tri-nations, the 2 matches Foster needed to win this year were Ireland series and England at Twickenham, we failed both, not to mention Argentina, and we got hammered by France & Ireland last Northern tour.
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fuck, why am i wading in to the dumbest thread on the Fern, oh, because i am bored
Teams to beat Ireland in a test in the last two years: Wales (lol), France, New Zealand
That Wallabies team you are trashing (that we beat 2-0) came within a bees dick of beating both France and Ireland away despite being smashed by injuries. Beat Scotland. Smashed Wales (the italy game was their nadir) all away. They aren't the 9th best team in the world. Oh look, in fact they are 6th
Beating South Africa in South Africa means fuck all because narrative.The simple fact is, no matter how often you fucking bleat it (and by god do you bleat it), the All Blacks do not just have a god given right to just rock up and win every single week. There is fuck all between the top 8 sides, and on any given day you could lose to any of them at the moment. World Test rugby has never, ever been as good as it is right now. And it's a beautiful thing.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster, Robertson etc:
the 2 matches Foster needed to win this year were Ireland series and England at Twickenham
if the jungle drums are correct, he needed to win the 2nd test in SA, which he did so and it supposedly stopped that last nail in his coffin...
Thing is, we could lose every single test match from now until the RWC and then all pool games, he aint going anywhere now.
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@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
fuck, why am i wading in to the dumbest thread on the Fern, oh, because i am bored
Teams to beat Ireland in a test in the last two years: Wales (lol), France, New Zealand
That Wallabies team you are trashing (that we beat 2-0) came within a bees dick of beating both France and Ireland away despite being smashed by injuries. Beat Scotland. Smashed Wales (the italy game was their nadir) all away. They aren't the 9th best team in the world. Oh look, in fact they are 6th
Beating South Africa in South Africa means fuck all because narrative.The simple fact is, no matter how often you fucking bleat it (and by god do you bleat it), the All Blacks do not just have a god given right to just rock up and win every single week. There is fuck all between the top 8 sides, and on any given day you could lose to any of them at the moment. World Test rugby has never, ever been as good as it is right now. And it's a beautiful thing.
Must be bored too. Would have the same perspective if we were trying to be innovative and playing near to our potential. Fact of the matter is the ABs are stagnant as fuck. I don't see any beauty in ABs running around like headless chooks.
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@mariner4life but Razor would fix it
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
fuck, why am i wading in to the dumbest thread on the Fern, oh, because i am bored
Teams to beat Ireland in a test in the last two years: Wales (lol), France, New Zealand
That Wallabies team you are trashing (that we beat 2-0) came within a bees dick of beating both France and Ireland away despite being smashed by injuries. Beat Scotland. Smashed Wales (the italy game was their nadir) all away. They aren't the 9th best team in the world. Oh look, in fact they are 6th
Beating South Africa in South Africa means fuck all because narrative.The simple fact is, no matter how often you fucking bleat it (and by god do you bleat it), the All Blacks do not just have a god given right to just rock up and win every single week. There is fuck all between the top 8 sides, and on any given day you could lose to any of them at the moment. World Test rugby has never, ever been as good as it is right now. And it's a beautiful thing.
Must be bored too. Would have the same perspective if we were trying to be innovative and playing near to our potential. Fact of the matter is the ABs are stagnant as fuck. I don't see any beauty in ABs running around like headless chooks.
That misses the point though.
Of course we can be better. So can other teams. England can be heaps better, as can Wales. France and Ireland are playing close to their known peak but who is to say they can't up the ante again.
This idea that even if we were playing at our best we would be comfortably the best is straight out arrogance. -
@Crucial
Marine4life wrote, "There is fuck all between the top 8 sides, and on any given day you could lose to any of them at the moment. World Test rugby has never, ever been as good as it is right now. And it's a beautiful thing."I wrote, "Would have the same perspective if we were trying to be innovative and playing near to our potential."
I honestly don't know where the message gets muddled and you get, "This idea that even if we were playing at our best we would be comfortably the best is straight-out arrogance."
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@Old-Samurai-Jack it's a very fair attitude, and one i have an enormous amount of sympathy for
i guess my attitude is that there are a couple of reasons why we don't look great all the time
Other teams are now good enough to take us away from what we want to do more regularly. Similarly we are as well of course.
We have paddling pool depth at some positions, and it means selection has to be bang on. It also means some guys have to play a lot.
Does the coaching staff get a free pass because of these? absolutely not. But, my opinion that making one change at the top isn't going to change the above nearly as much as some expect. And that;s what this thread devolved in to. One guy shit and source of all problems, one guy messiah who magically fixes everything. With zero context given to external factors.
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We have seen Auusie try and fix things by getting the next best thing as coach, if you ain't got the cattle ,you struggle. I agree with Mariner, we can do better as can almost any team on planet. I get torn between seeing ABs winning more , and being so happy that we got such a competitive world game.
We genuinely have very few players that would make a world xv, but that will come again, we have kind of lived off the 2011-2016 era for a little long. Writing was on wall when we stopped winning U20 titles really.
At moment we should be grateful we hold all hold the cups,comp we played in this year and last few years., and that will have do me for now.
If my club/provincial/super team wins comp while dropping a few games, I tend to still be happy. -
@mariner4life said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack it's a very fair attitude, and one i have an enormous amount of sympathy for
i guess my attitude is that there are a couple of reasons why we don't look great all the time
Other teams are now good enough to take us away from what we want to do more regularly. Similarly we are as well of course.
We have paddling pool depth at some positions, and it means selection has to be bang on. It also means some guys have to play a lot.
Does the coaching staff get a free pass because of these? absolutely not. But, my opinion that making one change at the top isn't going to change the above nearly as much as some expect. And that;s what this thread devolved in to. One guy shit and source of all problems, one guy messiah who magically fixes everything. With zero context given to external factors.
Funny how Schmidt & Ryan more or less came in and did essentially that....
So much for the narrative regarding our players being shit, as during the Ireland series many on this board were claiming Foster simply had average cattle to work with - it wasn't his fault!
Those posters are now silent.
With Schmidt & Ryan added we've seen players like Lomax & Taylor go from poor to excellent (after 3 seasons of going backwards under Foster), surely not a coincidence, so what makes you think changing the head coach wouldn't also be a net-positive?
