Foster, Robertson etc
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.
It is just my opinion and I am sure others here view things differently.
I'm just getting the vibe that he feels entitled to a big job right now and is approaching unions on that basis.
Somewhere like England would actually work for him better than NZ IMO as well. I still still him as a very skilled strategist and planner that needs an equally excellent support team. RFU will give him that whereas his selection in NZ may be slightly limited.I think he wants a promotion and thinks he deserves one. Can't blame him for that because he has been successful in his current role. Like anybody else wanting a promotion he is considering all options. If you are wanting a promotion and your current employer is dithering or doesn't have a spot open it makes sense to consider other options.
But this is the equivalent of you wanting a promotion to be Superintendent of the police force but deciding to become the head of the Bandidos rather than wait for the position to become available.
Well, if the Bandidos were going to make me filthy rich and I wouldn't end up in prison...
But yeah, if he was to coach another nation I would rather it not be England. But still, I wouldn't hold it against him.
Wales is the finishing school for aspiring AB coaches. Not England. Not Australia
Shame then Wales haven't been finishing well!
I disagree slightly with the above. Rennie could come back and coach ABs (well apart from his record) and I don't think there will be protests in the street. Times have changed. People have already almost forgiven Mitchell. Or maybe just forgotten. Our biggest RWC worry is France and Ireland and where is the last Irish coach now?
Fuck Dave Rennie. He can't come back because there are only two ways for it to turn out: (1) He's incredibly successful and wins the Bledisloe in which case he'll be public enemy number 1; or (2) he's a failure and we don't want such a loser.
In Razors case, my honest opinion is that he is the best person to appoint, but I also think he comes across as a cock for wanting to win a world cup with another country. Fully fuck you for saying you want to be the AB coach but also want to beat the ABs.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Fully fuck you for saying you want to be the AB coach but also want to beat the ABs.Does that apply to Schmitt, Hansen, Joseph, Henry, etc as well? Or is the problem he said it?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I’m guessing this thread will have an interesting life , particularly next year .
Will Need a good supply of popcorn 😁
Foster gets us to the RWC Final and NZR renew his contract citing his ability to perform under pressure and build a team from the depths of despair that was Ireland III.
Oh, how we'd laugh
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I’m guessing this thread will have an interesting life , particularly next year .
Will Need a good supply of popcorn 😁
Foster gets us to the RWC Final and NZR renew his contract citing his ability to perform under pressure and build a team from the depths of despair that was Ireland III.
Oh, how we'd laugh
Foster would have to be an absolute farking masochist to reapply. Winning the RWC is the only way to somehow redeem his absolute shit show of a legacy. It would be a Donald like redemption, although Donald didn't cause anything like the damage. Funnily enough nobody seemed to give a shit about Donald's mental health back then.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Fully fuck you for saying you want to be the AB coach but also want to beat the ABs.Does that apply to Schmitt, Hansen, Joseph, Henry, etc as well? Or is the problem he said it?
Schmidt made Ireland a force, and Hansen, Joseph, & Henry have and had no chance.
I'm happy to admit that it this is unfair, but there are acceptable international teams to coach and unacceptable ones.
If you make a good team a challenger, you're building your profile for the top job.
If you coach a true enemy (Wallabies, England, SA, Ireland now entering the chat) to the WC and say it out loud as your stated goal, go get fucked.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@kiwiinmelb said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I’m guessing this thread will have an interesting life , particularly next year .
Will Need a good supply of popcorn 😁
Foster gets us to the RWC Final and NZR renew his contract citing his ability to perform under pressure and build a team from the depths of despair that was Ireland III.
Oh, how we'd laugh
Oh how we'd laugh - admittedly the same way that Jack Nicholson laughed in the latter scenes of "The Shining" but yes, laughter none-the-less.
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@Mr-Fish said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Windows97 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Mr-Fish hence my opening line.
Though your rebuttal is with great certainty - do you actually have some sort of proof of this or just heard from "good sources" like the rest of us have
Not suggesting you were claiming otherwise, just no point in us all heading down a track that's ultimately redundant (unlike all the other important, on-point conversations we have here...).
No proof I'm able to provide, unfortunately.
Ultimately, NZR were poised to make a change but the costs of doing so, coupled with very strong opposition from the players and not being able to get Schmidt on board, as well as being able to use the excuse of a 'turning point' in Jo'burg meant the status quo was maintained. Nothing more to it than that, really.
Fair post - I'd also personally feel terrible should I red herring of mine distract us from all the on point and important conversations we have here
So what this basically means is that if NZRU had "had it's way" i.e. players and Schmidt had been on board Robertson would be coaching the AB's already?
Realistically gazing into the crystal ball of subterfuge and rumors' it's still looking like it's Foster till the end of the RWC and then Robertson as the "preferred candidate" thereafter.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Fully fuck you for saying you want to be the AB coach but also want to beat the ABs.Does that apply to Schmitt, Hansen, Joseph, Henry, etc as well? Or is the problem he said it?
Schmidt made Ireland a force, and Hansen, Joseph, & Henry have and had no chance.
I'm happy to admit that it this is unfair, but there are acceptable international teams to coach and unacceptable ones.
If you make a good team a challenger, you're building your profile for the top job.
If you coach a true enemy (Wallabies, England, SA, Ireland now entering the chat) to the WC and say it out loud as your stated goal, go get fucked.
i admit i thought your first post was over the top...but i get you now and agree
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Fully fuck you for saying you want to be the AB coach but also want to beat the ABs.Does that apply to Schmitt, Hansen, Joseph, Henry, etc as well? Or is the problem he said it?
Schmidt made Ireland a force, and Hansen, Joseph, & Henry have and had no chance.
I'm happy to admit that it this is unfair, but there are acceptable international teams to coach and unacceptable ones.
If you make a good team a challenger, you're building your profile for the top job.
If you coach a true enemy (Wallabies, England, SA, Ireland now entering the chat) to the WC and say it out loud as your stated goal, go get fucked.
Is the same true for those who are NZ-born and raised who play for the above four (when they beat the ABs) or is your ire exclusively reserved for coaches?
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@gt12 Mmm...apparently getting international experience is a prerequisite for the job according to some...
End of the day, Schmidt, Hansen, Joseph, & Henry, etc, have all tried to beat the ABs. Some kind of warped worldview, mental gymnastics so you can condemn one and not the other is not going to change that. -
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 Mmm...apparently getting international experience is a prerequisite for the job according to some...
End of the day, Schmidt, Hansen, Joseph, & Henry, etc, have all tried to beat the ABs. Some kind of warped worldview, mental gymnastics so you can condemn one and not the other is not going to change that.Understandable from fan perspective: get international experience but don't beat us!
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@taniwharugby said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew if that were to happen, I'd actually dislike the RWC more as it would ruin test rugby outside the RWC, we may as well have bloody friendlies or sumink!
Well, regarding most of the Tests as friendlies is the approach I've been taking to get me thru the shit-show of the last 2 years or so.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew That is just sick.
It could be worse. It could be a re-run of the last 2 years....
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Mmm...apparently getting international experience is a prerequisite for the job according to some...
Certainly appears to be the case with the coach's employers at the moment, doesn't it?
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The AB tactics seem absolutely stupid at times. The worst is taking the box kick inside the ABs 22 for it to land somewhere just outside the 22 and hoping we will get the ball back from this Hail Mary attempt. More times than not, the ball is given to the opposition when the defenses are in disarray and in prime attacking territory. The Prof. Smith said he really dislikes this tactic as it is such a low-percentage play (kick and hope) and the halfback projects what he is going to do to the opposition (esp. A.Smith and his kicking stance). Given our players look like they aren't coached to recover the ball as a team unlike Ireland and SA, it seems even more stupid. The "TJP box kick incident" versus England is the perfect example of this shit tactic.
The more I listen to people like Prof. Smith, the more I think the ABs are not in good hands with Foster. Accordingly, RM looks so much better running the cutter with the Crusaders with their more sensible approach, and I have a little sympathy for the defense coach (just a smidgeon though) and the wings trying to defend that seem to be on a hiding to nothing. -
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
The AB tactics seem absolutely stupid at times. The worst is taking the box kick inside the ABs 22 for it to land somewhere just outside the 22 and hoping we will get the ball back from this Hail Mary attempt. More times than not, the ball is given to the opposition when the defenses are in disarray and in prime attacking territory. The Prof. Smith said he really dislikes this tactic as it is such a low-percentage play (kick and hope) and the halfback projects what he is going to do to the opposition (esp. A.Smith and his kicking stance). Given our players look like they aren't coached to recover the ball as a team unlike Ireland and SA, it seems even more stupid. The "TJP box kick incident" versus England is the perfect example of this shit tactic.
The more I listen to people like Prof. Smith, the more I think the ABs are not in good hands with Foster. Accordingly, RM looks so much better running the cutter with the Crusaders with their more sensible approach, and I have a little sympathy for the defense coach (just a smidgeon though) and the wings trying to defend that seem to be on a hiding to nothing.I fucken hate box kicks. I'd love to see the stats on how many recover, it wouldn't take long to count them up. I also agree that RM and at times BB when he's in the slot are being made to look worse versions of themselves due to tactics
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@canefan The Black Fern's Cocksedge did the box kick beautifully in the WWC though. She put it long into the opposition's territory when there weren't any defenders back there and it always led to territorial pressure. They have their place in a smart game plan I think.
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@canefan The Black Fern's Cocksedge did the box kick beautifully in the WWC though. She put it long into the opposition's territory when there weren't any defenders back there and it always led to territorial pressure. They have their place in a smart game plan I think.
I don't think our AB (male) kickers are fantastic at the box kick; or they don't kick when there are dedicated and alert chasers.
Ireland has a 35.5% chance of scoring points when they enter their opponents 22, and they are rather good at generating those platforms because Ireland starts on average 8 attacks in their opponent 22. In contrast, New Zealand converts only 21.4% of their 7.6 attack starts in that zone. England converts at 22.4% of their 7.83 starts to points, while the Wallabies convert 34.8% of their 7 opportunities. -
@Old-Samurai-Jack most players telegraph a box kick in the way they set up, add in Smith doesn't run much (did a bit more on EOYT) means it is so easy to defend if he isn't setting a box, he is passing it, if 2 or 3 forwards are standing 3m away, you set on them, then pass back to the pod standing on the other side as well...so predictable.
