Foster, Robertson etc

canefan

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

It is just my opinion and I am sure others here view things differently.
I'm just getting the vibe that he feels entitled to a big job right now and is approaching unions on that basis.
Somewhere like England would actually work for him better than NZ IMO as well. I still still him as a very skilled strategist and planner that needs an equally excellent support team. RFU will give him that whereas his selection in NZ may be slightly limited.

I think he wants a promotion and thinks he deserves one. Can't blame him for that because he has been successful in his current role. Like anybody else wanting a promotion he is considering all options. If you are wanting a promotion and your current employer is dithering or doesn't have a spot open it makes sense to consider other options.

But this is the equivalent of you wanting a promotion to be Superintendent of the police force but deciding to become the head of the Bandidos rather than wait for the position to become available.

I think, at least in terms of public perception, there are teams you probably don't want to coach if your long term goal is to coach the ABs. The Wallabies is one, England probably another. Whether it matters to the fish heads that make the decisions I have no idea

Crazy Horse

@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

It is just my opinion and I am sure others here view things differently.
I'm just getting the vibe that he feels entitled to a big job right now and is approaching unions on that basis.
Somewhere like England would actually work for him better than NZ IMO as well. I still still him as a very skilled strategist and planner that needs an equally excellent support team. RFU will give him that whereas his selection in NZ may be slightly limited.

I think he wants a promotion and thinks he deserves one. Can't blame him for that because he has been successful in his current role. Like anybody else wanting a promotion he is considering all options. If you are wanting a promotion and your current employer is dithering or doesn't have a spot open it makes sense to consider other options.

But this is the equivalent of you wanting a promotion to be Superintendent of the police force but deciding to become the head of the Bandidos rather than wait for the position to become available.

Well, if the Bandidos were going to make me filthy rich and I wouldn't end up in prison...

But yeah, if he was to coach another nation I would rather it not be England. But still, I wouldn't hold it against him.

canefan

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

It is just my opinion and I am sure others here view things differently.
I'm just getting the vibe that he feels entitled to a big job right now and is approaching unions on that basis.
Somewhere like England would actually work for him better than NZ IMO as well. I still still him as a very skilled strategist and planner that needs an equally excellent support team. RFU will give him that whereas his selection in NZ may be slightly limited.

I think he wants a promotion and thinks he deserves one. Can't blame him for that because he has been successful in his current role. Like anybody else wanting a promotion he is considering all options. If you are wanting a promotion and your current employer is dithering or doesn't have a spot open it makes sense to consider other options.

But this is the equivalent of you wanting a promotion to be Superintendent of the police force but deciding to become the head of the Bandidos rather than wait for the position to become available.

Well, if the Bandidos were going to make me filthy rich and I wouldn't end up in prison...

But yeah, if he was to coach another nation I would rather it not be England. But still, I wouldn't hold it against him.

Wales is the finishing school for aspiring AB coaches. Not England. Not Australia

nostrildamus

@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Nepia said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

@Crazy-Horse said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Crucial said in Foster, Robertson etc:

I'm not sure if it has been mentioned previously in the thread but I find talk of a 'snub' by NZR a bit hard to take even knowing how useless NZR are.
Razor signed with them in full knowledge that the big job wouldn't come up until after RWC.
NZ, Eng, Oz, whoever are all in the same boat as far as timings go it is just that Eng and Oz don't go through selection process the same way NZ do and will happily throw out a contract to whoever they want.
He hasn't been stiffed by anyone.
The Foster mess in the middle of the year was badly handled if he was told to be ready as opposed to being sounded out.
Personally I think if he goes with England it smacks of being selfish and entitled. He simply had bad luck with timing just as many players do in their career. Even then he has still taken an NZR pay cheque up until the time his chance would come anyway.

I don't understand how going with England would be entitled. Selfish yes, but it can be argued we are all selfish no matter what decision we make, so I don't see that as a bad thing.

It is just my opinion and I am sure others here view things differently.
I'm just getting the vibe that he feels entitled to a big job right now and is approaching unions on that basis.
Somewhere like England would actually work for him better than NZ IMO as well. I still still him as a very skilled strategist and planner that needs an equally excellent support team. RFU will give him that whereas his selection in NZ may be slightly limited.

I think he wants a promotion and thinks he deserves one. Can't blame him for that because he has been successful in his current role. Like anybody else wanting a promotion he is considering all options. If you are wanting a promotion and your current employer is dithering or doesn't have a spot open it makes sense to consider other options.

But this is the equivalent of you wanting a promotion to be Superintendent of the police force but deciding to become the head of the Bandidos rather than wait for the position to become available.

Well, if the Bandidos were going to make me filthy rich and I wouldn't end up in prison...

But yeah, if he was to coach another nation I would rather it not be England. But still, I wouldn't hold it against him.

Wales is the finishing school for aspiring AB coaches. Not England. Not Australia

Shame then Wales haven't been finishing well!

I disagree slightly with the above. Rennie could come back and coach ABs (well apart from his record) and I don't think there will be protests in the street. Times have changed. People have already almost forgiven Mitchell. Or maybe just forgotten. Our biggest RWC worry is France and Ireland and where is the last Irish coach now?

Chris B.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@canefan said in Foster, Robertson etc:

If any of the board want Fozz to stay under any circumstance they should give themselves an uppercut

Depends on how well he does at RWC2023 (say, makes the final) and whether he wants to stay on, I guess.

That's where I support the Mariner's earlier post.

We've seen inter-RWC life under Fozzie and if there's ever something approaching a general consensus on the Fern, I think it's that the past 3 years have been a bit more shit than they needed to be.

If you're AB coach, I don't think you get to just cram for a six week exam at the end of your term and then all else is forgiven. Fozzie is not Ted in 2007, where we've dominated the world to the extent Stephen Jones has called for the RWC to be cancelled - now is the time to protect our future by being pro-active.

If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!

Bones

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!

You saying he would be a spy for NZR inside Razor's arse?

Chris B.

@Bones A bit more literal and involving rocket lab.

Bones

@Chris-B and here I was convinced the sun shines outta Razor's hole.

Chris B.

@Bones I wondered quite where that was going!

Dan54

@Chris-B Chris you do realise it's not up to Mark Robinson to hire coaches etc. Surely that us Chris Lendrum who is general manger of rugby and performance, the same one who is leading the search for Wayne Smith's replacement.
I know many people think Robinson makes all decisions in NZR, but he actually makes bugger all , but basically the board do that.
Though I understand what you saying, just pointing bones at wrong people? I also not sure we should race other unions for coaches, how about we employ the ones who really want the job?

Chris B.

@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!

AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?

Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.

He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!

ploughboy

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!

AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?

Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.

He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!

the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coaches

Chris

@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!

AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?

Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.

He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!

the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coaches

NO,NO AND NO

Bones

@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!

AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?

Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.

He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!

the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coaches

Are you talking about in the professional era? It's only "the only way" until another way happens. I feel like there's been some coaches even in the professional era that fit neither of those "options".

Victor Meldrew

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!

I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".

ploughboy

@Bones said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!

AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?

Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.

He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!

the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.
he turned down chance to be an assistant and when told one reason was lack of experence coaching internationly he stayed at the crusaders
jaime joseph/tony brown/john mitchell to be next all black coaches

Are you talking about in the professional era? It's only "the only way" until another way happens. I feel like there's been some coaches even in the professional era that fit neither of those "options".

true
i did say two best ways as is thats what normally happen
other side is if you dont follow the normal trails dont complain if dont get picked

Chris B.

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!

I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".

Well, last time, all our other options already had.

Razor at least stuck around to contest the position - as he has again.

We need to take learnings from our 2019 shambles!

Chris B.

@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Dan54 Where does the buck stop!

AB coach is an absolutely critical decision for NZR - if you're telling me it's not in Robinson's purview, I'm saying bollocks. Was it him or Lendrum who was in South Africa?

Razor has hung around for 4 years waiting for another shot, so the idea he doesn't now want the job - bollocks to that as well.

He's completed a four year job interview that we've all been privy to - just lock him in!!!

the two best ways to be all blacks head coach is either to be an assistant coach for ABs or coach internationaly overseas.

Come on down, John Plumtree!

Chris

@ploughboy said in Foster, Robertson etc:

lack of experence coaching internationally

if this is the criteria to be selected as an international coach,How do you get selected as one if you need it to be selected.

Answer you don't, there has been plenty of successful International coaches who have taken jobs and had success with no International experience.

And plenty who have had international experience who have been shit one pretty close to home.

Victor Meldrew

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:

@Chris-B said in Foster, Robertson etc:

If Mark Robinson eventually lets Razor slip through our fingers by dithering on process he should be fired...into the fucking sun!

I'd prefer the AB Head Coach to be chosen on a number of factors, but definitely not on the basis of "If you don't give me the job, I'll go somewhere else".

We need to take learnings from our 2019 shambles!

Oh. definitely, but let's not look back though. Just aim for the best man for the job and work from there. Bit pointless choosing a coach on the basis that he might go to another country as that's happened before.

The Silver Fern

Foster, Robertson etc