Foster, Robertson etc
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster:
@Machpants said in Foster:
I think we'll get foster until after the RC, is too short a turn around for anything else. And whilst foster and co focuses on the RC and bled, the board and Robinson should stand down and have a snap board election and find a new CEO before the NH tour
I sense that level of instability leading up to RWC2023 would be way too disruptive to the players & coaching staff. There's a need for some deep thinking and changes, but focus on the World Cup first.
It would make sense to endorse this team though to the RWC but also line up Razor and his team early to take over after that. That would provide Razor with lots of time to observe and plan on personnel (on and off field) and how to carry things forward without a clean out.
That would require planning with foresight from NZR though. -
My source has gone to ground and not replying at the moment. Which is unusual for him. So this may mean a change in the coaching structure he told me a couple of weeks ago. I’m seeing him at a function tomorrow night so may get more info then. It sounds like a right cluster f**k though
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The Jason Ryan appointment may turn out to be the move they made that saves a few reputations,
If he can get this pack competing against the best , and there is reason to be optimistic about that imo, in a very short time we look better there already ,
I still believe we have no reason to believe we can’t beat anyone
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At the risk of antagonising one or two of the delicate souls here, the signs are that most of the components of a good coaching team are in fact there.
My every intuition is that Joe Schmidt's analysis was critical in identifying personel changes and gameplan tweaks.
And the cattle turned out to be pretty good once there were plans they could understand! Ryan talked of stripping things back (much as Erasmus did).
Both tests with Ryan/Feek combo we've shaded the Boks at lineouts, which is a feather in cap. Scrums a B, Mauls good Bok1, slight issues with ref Bok2. Breakdown pants Boks1, but on top Boks2.
Attack worked well when we didn't force it. I think Foster is trying to work on passing after rush committed, but unless there is some time actually to catch the ball it's asking too much. Did RM stand a couple of yards deeper?
Only area where jury out for me on weekend was backline defence.
The odd thing about all this is that in normal set ups Schmidt would be head coach and Foster assistant. Their relative stature would make that the natural structure. Instead, because Joe won't travel, we've got the reverse. A bit like South Africa and Erasmus.
My personal view is that, with the possible exception of defense, the components are there and with Schmidt deeply involved, and Foster having the faith of the players, the set up can work. And potentially give us a good shot at RWC.
To trash it now, which would only seem to have ANY merit if the replacement is agreed, holds every prsopect of derailing things just as we may have found our way.
Will be interesting what review makes of defense role, but I hope they back Foster and team, with a clear set of objectives for rest of TRC.
And keep Plan B in back pocket.That's a very persuasive post that has me, an intense Foster sceptic, wondering.
If one views Foster as an overall man manager with the nuts and bolts of rugby strategy and practicalities more on Schmidt and Ryan, then I could see how it could work. But for this to be true, I'd have to see some consistent and convincing performances against the Argies and Oz. -
Weirdly, this whole thing resembles a kids club team. The coach is out of his depth, but the kids and parents love him. Some other more capable parents step in to help out and right the ship and everyone's happy. Can that work at this level? And if so, for how long?
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
And keep Plan B in back pocket.
Yay, more dry powder…
Kalyn Ponga has entered the chat
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
Weirdly, this whole thing resembles a kids club team. The coach is out of his depth, but the kids and parents love him. Some other more capable parents step in to help out and right the ship and everyone's happy. Can that work at this level? And if so, for how long?
the old saying, even a broken clock is right twice every day
I will need to see a few more performances like the weekend, preferably different game plans for different teams before i regain any faith the coaches know what theyre doing
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in Foster:
Weirdly, this whole thing resembles a kids club team. The coach is out of his depth, but the kids and parents love him. Some other more capable parents step in to help out and right the ship and everyone's happy. Can that work at this level? And if so, for how long?
Sounds like me coaching my sons cricket team in 20/21.
Your last sentence might not be entirely accurate in my case either……
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D-Day for Ian Foster: How and when NZR will decide All Blacks coach's fate
Exclusive: Ian Foster's future as head coach will be determined within the next two days.
Ian Foster's future as All Blacks head coach will be determined within the next two days.
The Herald understands New Zealand Rugby chief executive Mark Robinson and GM Professional Rugby & Performance Chris Lendrum are set to meet Foster on Tuesday after he and the All Blacks arrived home from their turbulent two test South African tour.
In April, following a review of last year's northern tour that finished with successive defeats to Ireland and France, Foster requested to be judged on the All Blacks' first five tests of this season.
That includes the underwhelming 2-1 home series defeat to Ireland, and the 1-1 Rugby Championship battles with the Springboks in Mbombela and Johannesburg.
Robinson and Lendrum will meet Foster today to review those matches, and all aspects of high performance surrounding the All Blacks, and then provide a recommendation to the nine-person New Zealand Rugby board on whether they believe he should be retained or removed.
Immediately after the All Blacks' victory at Ellis Park, Foster admitted he had no idea whether he would continue in his post. One day later he alluded to his latest looming review prior to departing South Africa after Robinson fronted media and would not endorse his future as All Blacks head coach.
"I haven't heard or read [Robinson's] comments but he's got a job to do. I'm about to hop on a plane and go home and mow the lawns around the pool," Foster said. "I'll be given feedback, no doubt, but my expectations are I'm the All Blacks head coach and later in the week I'll be going to Christchurch and assembling with the team until I'm told anything different."
After receiving Robinson and Lendrum's recommendation the NZ Rugby board are expected to meet on Wednesday night. At that meeting, they may cast their one vote each to determine Foster's fate.
Last week, prior to the All Blacks' upset triumph at Ellis Park, the mood for change was strong within New Zealand Rugby powerbrokers after witnessing five losses from the team's last six tests.
When the NZ Rugby board met last Sunday night, however, following the All Blacks' inspired 35-23 bonus point victory against the Springboks, that mood is understood to have softened, somewhat. It remains to be seen whether that will be enough to save Foster's tenure, though.
Since that success against the Springboks at altitude many senior All Blacks, the likes of Aaron Smith, captain Sam Cane, Ardie Savea and Sam Whitelock, have publicly backed Foster to retain his position.
While those views are expected to be considered in Robinson and Lendrum's recommendation, and by the board's ultimate decision, they will also be balanced against the potential vested interests attached to the current coaching regime.
The board must also determine how much improvement can be attributed to the belated change of assistant coaches, particularly Crusaders guru Jason Ryan replacing John Plumtree and the marked leap the All Blacks forward pack made in South Africa.
A definitive decision at this juncture leaves NZ Rugby in a challenging position. A vote for change risks potentially alienating the playing group and driving a wedge between the team and the national body, while maintaining the status quo could evoke another ugly public backlash if results do not continue to significantly improve through to next year's World Cup.
Either way, a decision on Foster's future must be made this week and put to bed once and for all until the World Cup. Further sustained speculation threatens to cause ongoing reputational damage.
The All Blacks are scheduled to reassemble in Christchurch on Sunday before playing the Pumas there the following Saturday.
By this Thursday, Foster will know whether he will be leading the All Blacks in that next assignment.
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i am hoping this is all just bad press management and bad reporting, because this is an absolute clusterfuck of epic proportions
To me the above reads like he is gone. No way would you be going through all of this if you are keeping him on, no way. All it does is ramp up the public pressure. They've spent the last couple of weeks getting their alternative lined up to step in to the job at the end of the week.
The alternative is they are serious about ANOTHER review, this one based on one good performance on the back of 3 shockers. And on that basis, you almost have to keep him, or risk labelling the result an aberration.
This is exactly why you have to be decisive. By drawing it out, all you do is give a guy you probably wanted rid of more chances to do enough to keep his job. Or, you heaped pressure on a guy you wanted to keep by not publicly backing him. And now a split series has given you no obvious clarity either way to say is the basis of your decision.
Incredibly unfair to all parties because the NZRU dithered
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@mariner4life it’s not easy to put the genie back in the bottle once the media smelled blood. This sort of editorial is a classic case of it. It’s just commentary from a media outlet that is wanting blood on the floor. NZRU can’t stop this or try and manage it from here on in (I think that’s what they thought Sunday’s bizarre presser would do) until ‘a process’ is completed (ie the Board meeting).
I personally don’t think he is gone and still think an Assistant will be replaced.
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@mariner4life said in Foster:
Incredibly unfair to all parties because the NZRU dithered
It's rubbish. Cauterise the wound after Ireland 3, and people will understand - if not like it, at least it's clear.
This has been terrible; a much improved perofrmance, players coming out in support ... moving Foster on now is messy as all hell.
Robinson should go, as well as a lot of the board. The governance has been terrible (again)
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@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@mariner4life it’s not easy to put the genie back in the bottle once the media smelled blood. This sort of editorial is a classic case of it. It’s just commentary from a media outlet that is wanting blood on the floor. NZRU can’t stop this or try and manage it from here on in (I think that’s what they thought Sunday’s bizarre presser would do) until ‘a process’ is completed (ie the Board meeting).
I personally don’t think he is gone and still think an Assistant will be replaced.
Why not just endorse the Man as HC and go through this stupid review again.
Either he is Coach or Not.Because they haven't it smells of they are thinking of change of HC, have they all ready committed to a HC change before Saturdays victory.
But all we have is we don't know, we haven't decided ffs. -
@ACT-Crusader said in Foster:
@mariner4life it’s not easy to put the genie back in the bottle once the media smelled blood. This sort of editorial is a classic case of it. It’s just commentary from a media outlet that is wanting blood on the floor. NZRU can’t stop this or try and manage it from here on in (I think that’s what they thought Sunday’s bizarre presser would do) until ‘a process’ is completed (ie the Board meeting).
I personally don’t think he is gone and still think an Assistant will be replaced.
i don't think he's gone either. But i read enough NRL media to know exactly how this goes, and the media always get their man.
This all could have been avoided after Ireland either way with a bit of decisive messaging.
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@Chris the Board need to do that endorsement, not the CEO. So it’s up to the Board to get together and balance all the relevant factors.
No doubt it seems like it has gone on and on for so long and there have been convenient and real factors such as on tour, preparation, announcement of new assistant - but a circuit breaker is rarely convenient and that’s what is needed and we now have time - whatever the outcome might be.
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
I knew a few people that backed Foster solely because Hansen said he was good to go.
At the time I argued that leopards don't change their spots, but Hansen's endorsement meant that they believed Fostyer had learned enough as AB assistant.
Hansen has to bear a huge amount of the blame here. He had massive sway, and he used it unwisely.
After the 2016 EOYT I was calling for him to step down. That loss to Ireland, of which I was there was the start of this regression. I've been particularly tough on Foster but I've equally layed the blame at the feet of Shag.
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@chchfanatic said in Foster:
My source has gone to ground and not replying at the moment. Which is unusual for him. So this may mean a change in the coaching structure he told me a couple of weeks ago. I’m seeing him at a function tomorrow night so may get more info then. It sounds like a right cluster f**k though
That one was pretty specific and required quite a few dominos to fall in the right direction, so
I won't be surprised if it falls a bit short - especially given that Mark Robinson hasn't exactly got his way on many big things during his tenure.Leon in to replace Mooar wouldn't surprise me, though - even if Fozzie survives.
