Foster, Robertson etc
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Possibly right strategically?
Can you please explain?
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@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@DaGrubster said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Your analogy of coach is an interesting one and a thinly veiled reference to the situation today with Robertson.
Unintentional reference. Everyone believed Duff was a magic solution but it just kicked the can down Reality Road a little longer. It was rinse and repeat for the next two coaches as well.
If Razor takes the job then he will have an almighty job on his hands trying to turn this group around after it has been Fozzied for the last 3 years
Nope, I believe the problems way deeper than Foster and were there long before he took over. The danger is Robertson will improve things in the short term (google Hawthorn Effect) but the deeper problems will still exist and will re-emerge worse than ever.
Foster isn't helping though. This team should be better. But we do need to reevaluate our playing style in test and SR level
100%.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Quite how a new coach can take over half way through a championship is a bit beyond me but maybe that's the plan behind all of this. A few weeks of pain while stuff is being established in the background.
Change should have happened straight after Ireland 3. Then the new coach has just under 3 weeks to prep.
See snip below from allblacks.com (without the result update - shabby). 2 weeks between SA and Argentina in CHC. There isn't enough time unless the new coach is planning already and we're being lied to by NZR.
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@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Quite how a new coach can take over half way through a championship is a bit beyond me but maybe that's the plan behind all of this. A few weeks of pain while stuff is being established in the background.
Change should have happened straight after Ireland 3. Then the new coach has just under 3 weeks to prep.
See snip below from allblacks.com (without the result update - shabby). 2 weeks between SA and Argentina in CHC. There isn't enough time unless the new coach is planning already and we're being lied to by NZR.
Schmidt is in NZ 😉
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@Joans-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@DaGrubster said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Your analogy of coach is an interesting one and a thinly veiled reference to the situation today with Robertson.
Unintentional reference. Everyone believed Duff was a magic solution but it just kicked the can down Reality Road a little longer. It was rinse and repeat for the next two coaches as well.
If Razor takes the job then he will have an almighty job on his hands trying to turn this group around after it has been Fozzied for the last 3 years
Nope, I believe the problems way deeper than Foster and were there long before he took over. The danger is Robertson will improve things in the short term (google Hawthorn Effect) but the deeper problems will still exist and will re-emerge worse than ever.
Foster isn't helping though. This team should be better. But we do need to reevaluate our playing style in test and SR level
100%.
spot on @Victor-Meldrew. We are not producing the top class talent we used to. The coach needs changing, but the issues go far deeper - right up to the Board and governance, and right down to grass roots.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@DaGrubster said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Your analogy of coach is an interesting one and a thinly veiled reference to the situation today with Robertson.
Unintentional reference. Everyone believed Duff was a magic solution but it just kicked the can down Reality Road a little longer. It was rinse and repeat for the next two coaches as well.
If Razor takes the job then he will have an almighty job on his hands trying to turn this group around after it has been Fozzied for the last 3 years
Nope, I believe the problems way deeper than Foster and were there long before he took over. The danger is Robertson will improve things in the short term (google Hawthorn Effect) but the deeper problems will still exist and will re-emerge worse than ever.
ABs need Schmidt's attention to detail. The precision is lacking. From everything I have ever read and heard about Schmidt, he is a master at the tiny details. Body angles when clearing out, ball presentation, kick shepherding...all of these if improved would significantly make the ABs better than they are. He's also pretty good at designing set play moves and getting players to understand where they need to be and when.
Ireland have built on the base he left. Without Schmidt, Leinster would not have become the dominant force in Europe and Ireland would not be where they are now.
Most of all, Schmidt instilled the culture of excellence in his time in Ireland. He taught the players what they needed to do to compete with the best. They have taken responsibility for it, but he showed them what it would take.
It will be interesting to see what NZ does with such a valued asset in the next few weeks.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants video analysis only ok. But Zoom or Skype or Teams with the players and coaches about overall strategy ain't the same.
Luckily that's not his role, he might do some with just the other coaches, but that is no problem over IP
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@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@DaGrubster said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
Your analogy of coach is an interesting one and a thinly veiled reference to the situation today with Robertson.
Unintentional reference. Everyone believed Duff was a magic solution but it just kicked the can down Reality Road a little longer. It was rinse and repeat for the next two coaches as well.
If Razor takes the job then he will have an almighty job on his hands trying to turn this group around after it has been Fozzied for the last 3 years
Nope, I believe the problems way deeper than Foster and were there long before he took over. The danger is Robertson will improve things in the short term (google Hawthorn Effect) but the deeper problems will still exist and will re-emerge worse than ever.
Foster isn't helping though. This team should be better. But we do need to reevaluate our playing style in test and SR level
100%.
spot on @Victor-Meldrew. We are not producing the top class talent we used to. The coach needs changing, but the issues go far deeper - right up to the Board and governance, and right down to grass roots.
Totally, but shit management, innovative head coach with a history of leading winning teams, failing internal rugby set up, WR fucking the game over is better than shit management, staid head coach with no history of leading winning teams, failing internal rugby set up, WR fucking the game over
You've gotta start somewhere!
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Possibly right strategically?
Can you please explain?
I think we've tried out a few failures that sound OK in theory. Some of this goes back to Hansen days as well.
Deliberately trying to isolate ball carriers by absorbing tackles didn't work as others changed their carrying tactics to slightly delay the cleanout/support with the next group ready for the next hit and get a roll on that was hard to stop.
*in the past we haven't seen such quick tactical reaction from other countries
We've tried 30 odd metre kicking to keep turning around the rush defence with the aim to sometimes get the ball back in an unstructured field. Skills let us down there either from the kicker or the chasers and again the other top teams reacted very quickly to having clear clean up positions and readiness for counter attack.These are tactical failures because they didn't account for capability to execute and reaction from opposition. Strategically they are correct because we aren't going to outmuscle or out-fitness teams anymore and can't rely on the other top teams making skill mistakes like they used to for us to feed off so have to find other ways.
While trying out these failures though we have got into a muddle of not having clear heads on what to do when things aren't working.As an aside it will be interesting to see if in the next game we try a bit more of what Ardie did last week in drawing a penalty by stepping back out of the contact area so the arriving cleaner went off their feet over the ball. Plenty of opportunity to do that more often against these boks.
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Possibly right strategically?
Can you please explain?
I think we've tried out a few failures that sound OK in theory. Some of this goes back to Hansen days as well.
Deliberately trying to isolate ball carriers by absorbing tackles didn't work as others changed their carrying tactics to slightly delay the cleanout/support with the next group ready for the next hit and get a roll on that was hard to stop.
*in the past we haven't seen such quick tactical reaction from other countries
We've tried 30 odd metre kicking to keep turning around the rush defence with the aim to sometimes get the ball back in an unstructured field. Skills let us down there either from the kicker or the chasers and again the other top teams reacted very quickly to having clear clean up positions and readiness for counter attack.These are tactical failures because they didn't account for capability to execute and reaction from opposition. Strategically they are correct because we aren't going to outmuscle or out-fitness teams anymore and can't rely on the other top teams making skill mistakes like they used to for us to feed off so have to find other ways.
While trying out these failures though we have got into a muddle of not having clear heads on what to do when things aren't working.As an aside it will be interesting to see if in the next game we try a bit more of what Ardie did last week in drawing a penalty by stepping back out of the contact area so the arriving cleaner went off their feet over the ball. Plenty of opportunity to do that more often against these boks.
Need to turn their strengths into weaknesses.
Bok cleaners leave their feet a lot and effectively seal the ball off. This is what Savea showed.
I'll be interested to see how much focus ABs give to the Bok kick chasers this week. AB shepherding was very poor allowing them free runs on the AB catcher. Boks were excellent at picking up the dropped ball from the initial contest.
For all the Bok dominance at the weekend, both of their tries came as a result of dropped balls. Frizell's when he had nobody near him was a coach killer. ABs need to make them work so much harder for 5 pointers.
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@Frank said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I can actually see what Foster is trying to do but his ideas are being headed off at the pass before they can even get settled.
What is he trying to do?
See two posts above yours for some examples.
I'm not excusing his results or abilities just thinking a wee bit beyond 'the guy is useless' -
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Possibly right strategically?
Can you please explain?
I think we've tried out a few failures that sound OK in theory. Some of this goes back to Hansen days as well.
Deliberately trying to isolate ball carriers by absorbing tackles didn't work as others changed their carrying tactics to slightly delay the cleanout/support with the next group ready for the next hit and get a roll on that was hard to stop.
*in the past we haven't seen such quick tactical reaction from other countries
We've tried 30 odd metre kicking to keep turning around the rush defence with the aim to sometimes get the ball back in an unstructured field. Skills let us down there either from the kicker or the chasers and again the other top teams reacted very quickly to having clear clean up positions and readiness for counter attack.These are tactical failures because they didn't account for capability to execute and reaction from opposition. Strategically they are correct because we aren't going to outmuscle or out-fitness teams anymore and can't rely on the other top teams making skill mistakes like they used to for us to feed off so have to find other ways.
While trying out these failures though we have got into a muddle of not having clear heads on what to do when things aren't working.As an aside it will be interesting to see if in the next game we try a bit more of what Ardie did last week in drawing a penalty by stepping back out of the contact area so the arriving cleaner went off their feet over the ball. Plenty of opportunity to do that more often against these boks.
Ah ok I see. But we've been trying those tactics for months if not years and if anything getting worse at them. Whatever they do, they have to counter Marx, he had a field day.
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@nostrildamus My problem with Marx is that he is not going for the ball, he is going for the penalty. He leans on the player and holds the ball into the player. Ref sees a picture and .....
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@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus My problem with Marx is that he is not going for the ball, he is going for the penalty. He leans on the player and holds the ball into the player. Ref sees a picture and .....
Well the captain or the coach needs to have a word. We weren't helped by the ref but when have we last played the ref well? I can't honestly remember!
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus My problem with Marx is that he is not going for the ball, he is going for the penalty. He leans on the player and holds the ball into the player. Ref sees a picture and .....
Well the captain or the coach needs to have a word. We weren't helped by the ref but when have we last played the ref well? I can't honestly remember!
2015?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Old-Samurai-Jack said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus My problem with Marx is that he is not going for the ball, he is going for the penalty. He leans on the player and holds the ball into the player. Ref sees a picture and .....
Well the captain or the coach needs to have a word. We weren't helped by the ref but when have we last played the ref well? I can't honestly remember!
we seem to sit back passively and let the ref figure out on their own what's going wrong.
I fundamentally disagree about teams waving arms at the refs, but every other bloody side is doing it. We're not good enough at the moment to take the moral high ground; get in his ear and influence.
Cane shoudl be spending a bit of time with McCaw to get his knowledge. Lines like 'is that the standard now sir' is just respectful and clear and enables people to then push right to the limit. Far more 'us' than screaming and flapping arms.
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It's nice that Foz is plainly a humble and decent man. But most great coaches marched to their own drum, and they had a bit of the devil to them - Henry, Woodward, Eddie Jones, Erasmus and Razor ( These guys are all capable of thriving in extreme environments.) Fozzie would be most at ease in a tearoom outside Tirau scoffing a lamington.
