Foster, Robertson etc
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@PecoTrain The ABs have sometimes had a team without stars but they have always competed. Now, they have a team of talented individuals but are not in the competition. You do the maths.
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So....where to from here for the team
Win both tests and we are stuck with lame duck Foster through to the WC.
Lose both tests and Foster may well be gone...
Win one-lose one......sheesh anybodys guess......cross fingers and hope like helll??? -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@junior said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Personally the 2007 quarter final
That's interesting, the ABs were dominant in that game. It just the ref decided not to ref what was going on
We completely lost the plot in that game and had zero on-field management and ability to adapt. Some of the dumbest, brainless rugby an AB team has played IMO.
We actually played quite smart, I thought, in the period after the yellow card - got the ball in the right area of the field, dominated possession, went forward up the guts with our forwards, soaked up the clock, and managed to bag a 5-pointer. The really dumb thing was that we didn't then get away from that when we went back up to 15 on the pitch and the French and barnes just started ignoring the breakdown rules, which meant the up the guts strategy became less effective.
I was there (sadly). My abiding memory was us hammering their line and not having the nous to go for drop goals. Dan sure as heck exorcised that little itch in 2015 though
My abiding memory after the game was a loud-mouth bloke in an England shirt taunting AB supporters and being decked by another bloke in a Saffa shirt. At least one of then was a Rugby fan.
Mine was lots of Irish doing the same thing.
Hated their rugby team ever since. Somewhat more difficult now.
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@MajorRage said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@junior said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Machpants said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Personally the 2007 quarter final
That's interesting, the ABs were dominant in that game. It just the ref decided not to ref what was going on
We completely lost the plot in that game and had zero on-field management and ability to adapt. Some of the dumbest, brainless rugby an AB team has played IMO.
We actually played quite smart, I thought, in the period after the yellow card - got the ball in the right area of the field, dominated possession, went forward up the guts with our forwards, soaked up the clock, and managed to bag a 5-pointer. The really dumb thing was that we didn't then get away from that when we went back up to 15 on the pitch and the French and barnes just started ignoring the breakdown rules, which meant the up the guts strategy became less effective.
I was there (sadly). My abiding memory was us hammering their line and not having the nous to go for drop goals. Dan sure as heck exorcised that little itch in 2015 though
My abiding memory after the game was a loud-mouth bloke in an England shirt taunting AB supporters and being decked by another bloke in a Saffa shirt. At least one of then was a Rugby fan.
Mine was lots of Irish doing the same thing.
Hated their rugby team ever since. *Somewhat more difficult now.
Yep hated them after that and for some of the carry on since but they’ve massively earnt my respect for their team given what they’ve done and the way they’ve gone about it in the last month or so. Would not begrudge them a RWC victory next year, but don’t think they’ll do it because of French home advantage and vagaries of the draw
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@MajorRage said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Hated their rugby team ever since. Somewhat more difficult now.
There's always Sexton...
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It's not X-factor the All Blacks are desperate for in the midfield
For the last six years, the All Blacks have seemingly erred away from technical skills in favour of X-factor.
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@Victor-Meldrew Peter Stringers seagull impression appealing for penalties at pretty much every ruck or maul used to grate me no end.
@stodders not sure Havili qualifies as an x-factor player.
Goodhue, Havili, ALB are all more in the technical mould than x-factor, and when fit I reckon one of these definitely starts.
For other positions I agree, we are picking players and have a gameplan that seems to rely on x-factor or a moreso a moment of brilliance to open the game up.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nzzp said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
When you unpick the "Foster must go" argument and ask how many Tests you'd give a Foster-replacement to improve things (like the win percentage) before he too gets sacked, things get a bit more vague and/or complicated for some reason. Really can't think why if the quality of the coach is a key problem.
You asked this on the other thread, and it's a great challenge.
The consensus was it's not just the losing, but the way we're losing. We seem miles behind other nations, particularly England France Ireland in our attacking and defensive patterns. Our players no longer seem to be better than the opposition at the core skills and vision.
So, a better record, and/or visible improvements in the way we play.
If Foster had the team playing well and we lost to a better side, most folk would accept that as steps on the journey. Right now we're seeing players seem to get worse in the AB environment; muddled thinking, poor skills, woeful kicking, lack of clarity of action and gameplan, and slow speed of thought.
Great post.
NZR were so quick to fire Mitchell and Deans who went through a clean sweep of the Tri-Nations, put 50 points on SA and Australia away. Won the Bledisloe and then lost one game, the semi and were fired. I think it was the only second game they lost that season. I think the All Blacks will be stronger for the changes but a 0-2 loss might be what the All Blacks really need.
Mitch's dismissal was less to do with results and more to do with the division he created with every aspect of NZ rugby, players, administrators, media, public, sponsors. He pissed everybody off.
In Keith Quinn's book on 2003 (Journey to Nowhere) there's the story of a high ranking NZRU official who, when asked about the coach's future and what would happen if they won the World Cup, said something like "That would make things, umm, awkward".
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@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
For other positions I agree, we are picking players and have a gameplan that seems to rely on x-factor or a moreso a moment of brilliance to open the game up.
What you've said makes a heck of a lot of sense and is almost a penny-drop moment for me. Explains why when we stop the fancy-Dan stuff and go back to the basics when behind, we seem to go really well - e.g. 3rd 20 against France and the 2nd 20 in Ireland III
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@booboo said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Mitch's dismissal was less to do with results and more to do with the division he created with every aspect of NZ rugby, players, administrators, media, public, sponsors. He pissed everybody off.
He also pissed off a lot of people like Josh Kronfeld by picking McCaw out of nowhere and "giving All Black jerseys out too easily" so I guess we can forgive him that one...
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@booboo said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
Mitch's dismissal was less to do with results and more to do with the division he created with every aspect of NZ rugby, players, administrators, media, public, sponsors. He pissed everybody off.
He also pissed off a lot of people like Josh Kronfeld by picking McCaw out of nowhere and "giving All Black jerseys out too easily" so I guess we can forgive him that one...
I blame Deans…
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@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Peter Stringers seagull impression appealing for penalties at pretty much every ruck or maul used to grate me no end.
@stodders not sure Havili qualifies as an x-factor player.
Goodhue, Havili, ALB are all more in the technical mould than x-factor, and when fit I reckon one of these definitely starts.
For other positions I agree, we are picking players and have a gameplan that seems to rely on x-factor or a moreso a moment of brilliance to open the game up.
In MF I still feel the mix isn't right. Our greatest midfield pairs of my lifetime had one strong man (Nonu, who ended up being a very good distributor, and Bunce) and a distributor type (Snake, Little). Maybe RTS can be the direct runner with his league background?
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@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Peter Stringers seagull impression appealing for penalties at pretty much every ruck or maul used to grate me no end.
@stodders not sure Havili qualifies as an x-factor player.
Goodhue, Havili, ALB are all more in the technical mould than x-factor, and when fit I reckon one of these definitely starts.
For other positions I agree, we are picking players and have a gameplan that seems to rely on x-factor or a moreso a moment of brilliance to open the game up.
In MF I still feel the mix isn't right. Our greatest midfield pairs of my lifetime had one strong man (Nonu, who ended up being a very good distributor, and Bunce) and a distributor type (Snake, Little). Maybe RTS can be the direct runner with his league background?
Reiko is pretty direct when he wants to be.
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@MN5 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Peter Stringers seagull impression appealing for penalties at pretty much every ruck or maul used to grate me no end.
@stodders not sure Havili qualifies as an x-factor player.
Goodhue, Havili, ALB are all more in the technical mould than x-factor, and when fit I reckon one of these definitely starts.
For other positions I agree, we are picking players and have a gameplan that seems to rely on x-factor or a moreso a moment of brilliance to open the game up.
In MF I still feel the mix isn't right. Our greatest midfield pairs of my lifetime had one strong man (Nonu, who ended up being a very good distributor, and Bunce) and a distributor type (Snake, Little). Maybe RTS can be the direct runner with his league background?
Reiko is pretty direct when he wants to be.
Might just need a backs coach who can actually make a gameplan to exploit him
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@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@MN5 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Peter Stringers seagull impression appealing for penalties at pretty much every ruck or maul used to grate me no end.
@stodders not sure Havili qualifies as an x-factor player.
Goodhue, Havili, ALB are all more in the technical mould than x-factor, and when fit I reckon one of these definitely starts.
For other positions I agree, we are picking players and have a gameplan that seems to rely on x-factor or a moreso a moment of brilliance to open the game up.
In MF I still feel the mix isn't right. Our greatest midfield pairs of my lifetime had one strong man (Nonu, who ended up being a very good distributor, and Bunce) and a distributor type (Snake, Little). Maybe RTS can be the direct runner with his league background?
Reiko is pretty direct when he wants to be.
Might just need a backs coach who can actually make a gameplan to exploit him
Steady on, that’s asking a lot.
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@MN5 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@MN5 said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@taniwharugby said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew Peter Stringers seagull impression appealing for penalties at pretty much every ruck or maul used to grate me no end.
@stodders not sure Havili qualifies as an x-factor player.
Goodhue, Havili, ALB are all more in the technical mould than x-factor, and when fit I reckon one of these definitely starts.
For other positions I agree, we are picking players and have a gameplan that seems to rely on x-factor or a moreso a moment of brilliance to open the game up.
In MF I still feel the mix isn't right. Our greatest midfield pairs of my lifetime had one strong man (Nonu, who ended up being a very good distributor, and Bunce) and a distributor type (Snake, Little). Maybe RTS can be the direct runner with his league background?
Reiko is pretty direct when he wants to be.
Might just need a backs coach who can actually make a gameplan to exploit him
Steady on, that’s asking a lot.
Right now it's asking a hell of a lot
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I'm now wondering who our 3rd 10 is. Are they relying on DMac to come back all test ready?
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@broughie said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@canefan I really think he’s too small for second five. He needs space to operate and I really don’t see him being successful at second five.
We need to replace Nonu. Most of our guys strike me as being the finesse player in the MF partnership. I think ALB has to be one of the guys and we need to find the right partner for him
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@canefan would the closest be Leicester then? Quinn is kind of half-half.
Of course we could just reprise the midfield pairing of Reece at 12 and Tupaea at 13
https://www.stuff.co.nz/sport/rugby/all-blacks/125552811/how-new-all-blacks-midfielder-quinn-tupaea-was-nearly-lost-to-the-loose-forwardsAchieving the rare feat of breaking into the school’s 1st XV in Year 11, Tupaea lined up at centre to form one heck of a midfield, with the dynamic Sevu Reece inside him at No 12, having been shifted from the wing for his final year.
